Building a Competitive Pre-Med and BS/MD College List

Webinar Transcription

2026-03-23 – Building a Competitive Pre-Med and BS:MD College List

Anesha: Hi everyone, and welcome to tonight’s webinar. My name is Anesha Grant. I’m a senior advisor at CollegeAdvisor and I will be your moderator today. Today’s webinar is focused on, “Building a Competitive Pre-Med and BSMD College List.” Before we get started, just to orient everyone with the webinar timing, we will take a quick poll just to learn who’s in the room with us, share a presentation on today’s topic, and then we will open up the floor to respond to your questions in a live q and a on the sidebar, you can start so many questions in the q and a tab.

I do ask you to try to keep the questions focused on list building. Um, though I know you have probably lots of other pre-med based MD questions today, we are gonna try to focus on, uh, developing the list. Um, but feel free to drop your questions in the q and a tab. And again, the slides that we’ll be we’ll be using for today are under the handouts tab.

Now let’s meet our presenter, Dr. Ishaani Khatri. Hi Dr. Khatri. How are you doing?

Ishaani: Hey everyone. I’m doing well.

Anesha: So tell us a little bit about yourself and your background.

Ishaani: Yeah, sure. So, hi guys. My name’s Ishaani. Um, I am a graduate of Brown’s Medical School in Brown’s, uh, undergrad as well. I was a member of Brown’s eight year, uh, combined BS and MD program, the program and liberal medical education.

I’m currently an internal medicine resident, uh, which means I focus on being a doctor for adults. We’re both hospitalized and also in the clinic setting, so like being a primary care doctor for adults as well. And so I’m an internal medicine resident at. Um, in New York City. Um, as I said, I went to medical school at Brown.

I also and graduated recently. Um, I also got my undergraduate degree at Brown in computational biology. So I really loved computer science in high school. I also knew I wanted to be a physician in computational biology. Allowed me to blend my two interests in a really perfect way, um, when it comes to my experience in the kind of college advising and navigating the college application experience.

So I of course applied to many schools as a pre-med applicant way back when I applied to college. Um, I also applied to multiple BSMD programs. So I have experience being the applicant. I also have been working in the college advising space for about seven to eight years now. Um, so I’ve seen and advised other students through the process and additionally, uh, as a fourth year medical student, I, uh, worked to review applications to Brown’s program in liberal medical education.

So I’ve also seen the other end of the process and, you know, evaluated applications, uh, pretty critically and very thoroughly. So I, I think I’ve really had the whole, uh, you know, gambit of experiences, both being the applicant advising applicants, and also evaluating applicants. Yeah,

Anesha: no, I’ve heard you speak before and I know that your, your experiences from all of those facets come into play, so I think it’ll be a great talk.

Before we let you get into it, we’re just gonna do a quick poll and let us know what grade you are in. If you’re a parent or a teacher, you can go ahead and select other, uh, but for students, please let us know what grade you’re currently in, and as we’re waiting for responses to come in, I’m curious about if there was ever a moment for you in your journey where you were like, this is definitely what I should be doing.

Like that, that like the road to becoming a doctor was fully affirmed for you.

Ishaani: Yeah. I think something that’s really honestly standing about becoming a doctor, so you really don’t, it’s hard to really understand what it’s like being a doctor until you’re really a doctor and you really get to put in, in those shoes.

And I think the first time you really, truly experience it, um, is as a third to fourth year medical student. So like in the middle of medical school, um. So like to be, to be frank, the first years of medical school is pretty dry. It’s pretty esoteric with a lot of learning. And you finally get to be put in the position of like, what is it like to be a doctor as a third and fourth year medical student?

And I of course loved the first years of medical school. I was like, this is fun. This is interesting. But I think the third and fourth years is when I really like found the joy. And I, I loved it. And then even as a resident physician right now, um, you know, I’m being pushed and I’m working very hard in ways I, I was really concerned about and was worried.

Be able to handle, honestly, as a medical student. But I love my work every single day and every single day. I’m just really grateful that I get to do what I get to do.

Anesha: That’s awesome. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I, I was curious about the affirmation of it, um, given so many of the challenges that come along with it.

Um, okay. We’ll go ahead and close our poll. And just so you know, we have about, um, close to 200 folks in the room with us. Uh, the majority of them are in the 11th grade, so about 33%. Um, another third are in ninth grade, another third are in the 10th grade. And then we have a handful of seniors and a handful of ninth, eighth graders, and a handful of parents and teachers.

So mostly ninth, 10th, and 11th graders in with us today. Uh, I’ll stop talking and I’ll be back a little bit later for the q and a, but I’ll hand it back over to you, Dr.

Ishaani: Great. So I think, you know, today’s talk, we’re hoping, we’re aiming to talk about building a competitive pre-med and BS MD college list. And I think a really great first place to start is asking ourselves and defining what does it mean to be a pre-med student. Um, so of course being a pre-med means you’re interested in career in medicine, but more specifically you’re interested in being a physician.

And when you think about being a physician, there are really two primary degree path paths that you can, uh, consider. For example, you could be an MD one, you can be a do, um, they’re the two, like osteopathic versus allopathic medicine. A lot of people ask me like, what’s different between MD and DO? Does it matter?

I think, uh, classically people would say like the MD is quote unquote, like more competitive schools to get into, and the do is less competitive in the application process. That being said, uh, when it comes to the actual journey of being a physician and what really matters and like what kind of position you become, that’s all about the residency process.

Both MDs and DOS are given the chance to apply to the same exact residency programs. Um, of course. And what happens is, uh, MDs tend to, it’s, it’s, it’s more competitive to get into these programs and as a result, you’re more eligible for more competitive programs. That being said, that there are dos that match into very competitive programs, into very competitive specialties.

Um, so going to an osteopathic school does not exclude you from going to a fantastic residency program and matching into a fantastic, uh. Uh, competitive specialty, but it might be a little bit more challenging coming from a doco school compared to an MD school. Something I always like to mention during this talk as well is healthcare.

As a field, there are so many incredible important roles within the field of health healthcare. Um, so for example, like the physical that we work with every day, the occupational therapist, speech language pathologist, the amazing physician assistants and nurse nurse practitioners, in addition to nursing colleagues that we get to work with, they’re all so important and their roles are very important.

Um, I think oftentimes when we think, oh, I work in healthcare equals doctor, and that’s really not the case at all. There are a lot of amazing ways you can make a really great impact and have a very lovely and fulfilling career within healthcare, and you don’t have to be necessarily a doctor to do so. So I was encouraged, uh, my students to remind themselves and consider and like look into these career paths as well.

Then we kind of, and so we kind of define what a pre-med program like pre-med is. Now. I think the second bit is what is a BS MD program? So it’s kind of exactly what the names, uh, implies, like bs, so a bachelor’s degree of science, and then an md. So a medical degree. Uh, one thing I’m worth noting. BS also these programs are called BAMD program.

So whether you go to Bachelor of science, bachelor arts doesn’t really matter. Um, and essentially what these programs are are these combined and conditional. So when you’re as a high school student, you get a combined and conditional acceptance to both a undergraduate and a medical institution directly after high school.

So with that in mind, you know, you’re basically 18, 17 years old and you’re, you’re effectively applying to medical school when you’re 17 and eight years old, 18 years old. Um. This I, you kind of see here that italic i, the word conditional. So that implies that yes, you get into these programs, but you also have to, like, you can’t, you don’t just get direct admission to the MD program sometimes or conditions and criteria you have to meet, uh, you have to meet certain metrics during your undergrad experience to be able to be like eligible to ma matriculate into medical school.

So those kind of conditions really vary from program to program. So as you’re researching BS MD programs, you really look into what those like matriculation criteria are. So some programs will say, okay, you get a conditional acceptance to our MD program, but keep in mind you have to maintain an A GPA of above 3.75 during undergrad, and then we’ll allow you toward med school.

Or you have to take the MCAT and you have to get to minimum X percentile score. And then you can matriculate into medical school. Some programs, these conditions are pretty lax. Like they might be like, you know what, no M like, for example, Brown’s medical BSMD program, no MCAT requirement, no GPA requirement is honestly one of the very, very lax programs.

Um, that’s like kind of one end of the spectrum. The other end of the spectrum, they might say, you need to have a fantastic GPA above the 3.8, and you have a great MCAT score and however they might define that. So that’s, those are conditions to kind of look into as well when you’re applying to BSMD programs.

Also, certain ones might have other, um, conditions such as like, oh, if you’re applying to other medical schools, you forfeit your seat. So you have to, if you wanna get into this program, you have to essentially say, I’m not applying to any medical schools after I finish these four years. So all important things to keep in mind.

Um, and now the bulk of this, you know, this, uh, meeting today, we wanna be talking about how do I build my college list? So you’re someone that is a pre-med student and now you’re asking yourself, okay, I know I wanna be a doctor, uh, applying to college soon. Where should I apply to college? So I think the most important takeaway from today’s talk is really creating a fantastic mix of what I, you know, safeties targets or reaches.

And you might hear these things called different terms. Um, but those, that’s really the key principle. So, you know, safety schools, I think safety is a school that you feel very confident you’ll be accepted at, um, a target school. Is a school that you feel like is kind of really at your level. So it’s a, it’s a target and then a reach is a, is a, a school or a program that you feel like it’ll be a challenging, but you know what, you’re gonna try your best and shoot your shot and try applying that, that program or school.

Um, so obviously to get a sense of what your personal target safety and reaches are, you need to be advised on, like, someone needs to assess your profile and get a sense of like, okay, how are you performing as a high school student? So then therefore, what is a safety versus target versus reach for you?

Um, and the things that define those things are a lot of usually metrics, like your SAT score, your GPA, um, for if you go to a high school that you know, ranks classes and ranks members, like those are also factors that are, we are keeping in mind, direct extracurriculars, et cetera. And a lot of people, you know, asking, okay, like, numberwise, what should I be thinking?

I always recommend like three to five. Safeties, three to five targets and reaches. I like to think about it as unlimited. Um, I think some, when I was like, was first, you know, considering applying. I think a lot of people are like, oh, you should do one third, one third, one third. I like to tell people like, when it comes to reaches, you really have an unlimited amount of places that you can apply to.

Um, because, you know, they’re all, you’re totally unsure if you’ll be accepted, you’ll not. Um, just the more reaches applied to the more applications you have to write, of course. So it’s more work for yourself, but you shouldn’t limit yourself to like the one third, one third, one third. You should just limit yourself to like, good number of safety.

So like three to five, good number of targets. So three to five. You could also maybe increase that to four to six and then reaches as many as you want. And of course, with the fact that you’ll have to be writing more applications when it comes to reaches BS MD programs, programs that are hyper competitive, no matter how strong your application is, a a BSMD program is a reach for everyone.

Um. Ivy League schools too, that are, you know, schools of that calendar caliber. Top 10 schools, Ivy League schools, top 20 schools. College is getting so competitive and the application process is getting so incredibly competitive. Even the person that’s most perfect on paper, like really competitive places are really competitive for everyone.

So they’re, these are reaches. Um, yeah.

So now taking a step back and thinking a little bit more generally, what are factors that all college applicants should consider when building a college list? I think ideally you want to have a fantastic mix of safety and target and reaches as we discussed. Um, but we also want to think about, um, we also wanna think about factors that are important for you.

Um, so for example. For things that in pre-med though, think about you wanna think about these volunteering opportunities, research opportunities, hospital opportunities near you, but also taking a step back and thinking about like, I don’t know if I wanna do pre-med. ’cause a lot of people, you know, you go into college, not sure if you wanna do pre-med, maybe you could be pre-law, maybe you could be swayed to go into tech or business or whatever that might be.

So if you’re a little bit unsure about medicine, maybe don’t go to the college. That’s like fantastic medicine program. But when it comes to other things, they’re not as strong. You probably wanna go to a school that’s like a solid all round kind of school and is very strong in multiple different disciplines.

There are also other factors you should be thinking of outside of the academics. Think about the extracurriculars that are big there. You know, if you’re an athlete. Do you wanna go to like a school that has like a strong D three school that you can maybe walk onto the team? Um, I think geography plays a huge role for so many people.

Um, I know some people are like, I’m from California and I wanna go to a school in California. I wanna go to an in-state school and get in-state tuition. Those are important things, you know, really consider the financials. All college applications should be thinking about the financials. Um, if you know that, like you don’t want to, you know, distance I think from home is also like a really big factor.

Um, I kind of knew when I was applying to college that, you know, I, my family grew up, I grew up in Chicagoland area, grew up in the Midwest, so I of course applied to all the amazing schools in the Midwest, but I had a decent amount of family on the East coast, like extended family. So I would be happy to stay on the East coast as well.

And that’s why I applied to a few schools out east too. Um, but I knew that California, like I hadn’t really had much family there. I didn’t really know that many people there. So Ca, California, I was like, uh, it’s like a little bit far. Maybe I apply to like one or two, but I knew the bulk of the places just like what felt close.

And you know, flights from California took so much longer compared to flights from the east coast to Chicago. So with that in mind, I, geography was important to me that I wanted to be on the East Coast or um, uh, the Midwest. I know some of my friends, they really wanted to be within driving distance of college.

Um, and honestly I had friends who had family within driving distance and I was always a little bit envious. Like their family was able to, of course, visit them more often for long weekends, et cetera. So a lot of my friends who grew up in the Northeast, they really only applied to schools in the Northeast because they already had such a lovely selection of schools and they’d love to be within like a three to, you know, one to four hour driving radius of their family, I think is a great point as well.

Um, so those are other things you should be keeping in, in mind too.

Now thinking a little bit more about pre-med specific factors, I talked a little bit to in the previous slide, what are factors you should be thinking about if you’re like a hundred percent sure on pre-med? What else should you think, be thinking about when building a college list? Um, I think the thing about medicine is you have, I have so many colleagues that, and they went to a variety of different undergrad schools.

Um, it’s not like, you know, everyone went to the, the top five or top 10, uh, undergrad school. And those are the only people that come. Doctors, you know, they come from all walks of life, all different backgrounds. Um, in all different variety of schools. You know, also a very big variety of majors. You know, some people met majored in computational biology like myself.

Some majored in engineering, some majored in like linguistics or sociology or anthropology. Um, so even within pre-med, you know, you can major in truly whatever you want. So if you know that you love medicine and you wanted to, you’re probably leaning towards, you know, like having to do a more STEM major and then being pre-med, go to school at a that strong STEM major.

Um, one of the big reasons that I really liked and applied to Brown is because they had computational biology as a major. Honestly, very few schools did have that even offered that as a major. Uh, other people I know wanted to go to schools with like strong English departments or anthropology departments and because that’s what they wanted to major in as a pre-med, so they part, part prioritize that.

So all that to say really prioritize your major, um, and if the school is strong on like what you know, your academic interests are. I also think, you know, think about opportunities for volunteering and research in the area and around your hospital. So, for example, myself, I, um. You know, really liked research in the computational space, and that’s why I liked Brown because they had this strong computational biology department.

I know some people like volunteering in urban areas and doing activism, uh, projects is really important to them, and that’s the kind of doctor they wanna be. So they want to go to, um, programs that like maybe lend themselves to having like the communities that activism’s really important or they really want to be involved with, like medicine in a very urban area.

So for them going, you know, into a college that’s like pretty rural in the middle of nowhere, they won’t get those opportunities. They have to like, engage and volunteer with urban populations. Like for example, if you really wanna volunteer the Spanish speaking population, uh, during undergrad, maybe you shouldn’t.

Go to a college that’s in like a really small town in the northeast where there are no Spanish speaking people. Uh, so think about that as well. Also think about is the affiliated hospital nearby. Um, I think a classic example of this is like, for example, like Cornell is an amazing school, but Cornell’s undergrad campus is in Ithaca, New York Medical school is in New York City, um, in Manhattan.

So, you know, the affiliated medical school and the um, undergrad campus are so far distance-wise, you’re not gonna be able to incorporate and work with the faculty in the same way. Um, so that’s also something really important to keep in mind. Like for example, I went to Brown Brown’s undergrad campus and medical campus, like a mile apart.

Um, so it’s very easy to get involved and meet faculty as a brown undergrad that work at the medical school. Um. Then also just think about generally what’s the academic environment like? I think you hear a lot about like places that are quote unquote, like cutthroat pre-med places. Again, these are times rumors that are overblown, but talk to people in the area are pre-meds here, like kind and they wanna work together and make sure everyone does well or they kind of places that you hear rumors about people like sabotaging other people’s tests, um, or not.

I don’t know if that actually happens in the real world. I went to Brown, Harvard was like very warm and collaborative and that was super, I’m not even say uncommon, but honestly unheard of. But yeah,

Anesha: that was so strange. You left for a second. It was

Ishaani: strange. Okay, I’m back. We’re gonna move on to the next slide. So now I’ve given you all this information about factors to consider, um, during, while making this college list. And I know we have a lot of people with different grades right now, and you’re probably next question is like, okay, I info, is this something that I should be thinking about right now?

When should I start thinking about, um, making a school list for myself? And I know we have a lot of juniors on the call, so I wanna call it all the juniors in the webinar. I think right now is a perfect time to start making this list. Um, I think I started, you know, thinking and making my college list probably exactly this time, like spring break of my junior year, end of March of my junior year.

Um, that being said, it’s never too early to start thinking about these things. Um, it’s never too early to start thinking about like, oh, like what do I wanna do in college? Just keep in the back of your mind. Um, because then you have something that you can potentially work backwards and work towards you.

If you tell yourself as a freshman, like, wow, this is my dream program, then you can maybe have some guidance and think about how you wanna work towards that. Um, but for my, I think this is probably a perfect time for my juniors. Um, and my sophomores, I’d probably start, I just like tentatively like building a list start.

It’s never too early to start talking to people or connecting to upperclassmen. I also know, uh, juniors, right, like your senior counterparts, so you might have some friends who are just seniors and they’re like, just hearing back from colleges right now, uh, talking to them about like their experience applying to college.

What was it like? Um, it’s a good time to start chatting with them. I think sometimes these near peer mentorships are really helpful, especially since there’s so many factors that going into applying to college. And a lot of it’s like very school specific. So if you have a friend who’s a senior. That’s like so happy with all the places they heard from college, talking to them about like, hey, like what worked for you in this process in our school that we both go to?

Like who’d you get your letters of rec from? Like, what’s a great class that I should be thinking about? And maybe we, if I’m a sophomore, I should be taking as a junior, like ask your friends who are seniors. Getting that kind of like insider information that’s specific to your school is always really helpful.

So the next question is, how can I think about these programs and make a comparison, um, between, you know, the whole college and pre-med track versus these like BS MD programs, which are these combined eight year programs? And again, this is kind of harping on the same piece of advice I was giving prior

of speaking to students that are currently there. Uh, so if you have, you know, like you’re interested in pre-med and you know someone who’s at COL in college and they’re like currently a pre-med at a certain school, you might have family friends, like you might have an older sibling who has friends or your older sibling themselves and ask them about their experiences.

Um, I think this is something that can be tricky in that, you know, if you don’t know someone too well, I find that they always give like the more positive rose colored tinted review of like, oh, he’s going great. I’m so happy. If you know someone much better, like for example, if like it’s your siblings at a college, you’re interesting that they’ll probably give you more honest review.

Um, and I think it’s important to get this information. That being said, always take it with a grain of salt. One person’s experience is one person’s experience. Um, sometimes, you know, I think a good way to be like, is it just like a one person experience? Like is it a them thing? Is it. Reflective of the school as whole.

You know, always try asking these people like, oh, what was your experience? What of some, what are your peers experiences too? So you can maybe from one person’s experience, try learning about multiple people’s experiences. Um, and then when you’re thinking about, do I wanna do the college and pre-med, like college plus apply to med school, track this pre-med track, which is BSMD, I think a lot of students applying to BS MD programs, um, of course they’re like fantastic programs.

I’m so grateful to have been part of one and to have, you know, I didn’t have to take the mcat. I had a lot of things that were a lot easier and simpler for me in college because of this program, which is I’m so grateful for. Before that being said, most doctors do not become doctors through BS MD programs.

Most of ’em go to college, then they apply to medical school. They get into medical school and then become a physician. Um, also, it’s also worth knowing that’s a lot of non-traditional medical, what we call quote unquote non-traditional medical students, like people that. Majored in something, maybe had a full career, and then realized in their late twenties, thirties that they wanna go into medicine, did a post back and then became a physician.

So a lot of like, people get into medicine in a very, like, non-traditional ways and not the common path. So it’s, it is never too early, it’s never too late to do that. Um, but all that to say, you do not have to get into a BSMD program to be an amazing physician. Um, a lot of people become amazing physicians from very different walks of life.

And having the mindset of, if I don’t get into A-B-S-M-D program, I’m never gonna be a doctor. That’s just simply not true. So, whatever, you know, I always encourage people to like apply, apply broadly, apply to BSMD program, but they’re very competitive. So if you don’t get into them, know that you can go to a college, do a great job there, and then apply to a medical school and go from there.

Big picture, I always tell people. You know, I think sometimes we build college. I be like, oh, I have to go to this school. I have to go to top blank, top 10, top five school, or else my life’s over. Um, what really matters is what you do there, not necessarily where you go. So remember that to carry forward your work ethic and your interest and your passion, and whether you bring it to this school or that school or that school, as long as you have like a lot to show for it and you show a lot of initiative during your four years of college, that’s what’s gonna make you stand out in the applications to medical school.

Um, you’ll see people that went to top 50, um, undergrad institutions, they end up at the best medical school. You’ll see someone at like the best undergrad school ever and they really struggle with the medical school op process. So just know that everyone’s journey is different and where you go to college does not make it or break it for a career in medicine.

It’s what you do there that can be make it or break into getting into med school. Um. Kind of Now going back to the numbers question, I think I get asked this a lot. Like, oh you, you tell me like I should be aligned with this many schools. What’s an appropriate number? This number, these are numbers that I kind of felt like, I don’t know if I have any like strong data.

I’m sure my colleagues at CollegeAdvisor who really analyze our application and our applicants have more data for this number. But if I was just advising a student on like, okay, how many places should I apply to total? If I’m interested in pre-med, I’d say minimum eight. I’d probably think of that as like three to four safeties and like three to four reaches at a minimum, and then maximum, technically it’s unlimited.

However, I would definitely say don’t apply. Like 20 is a lot. I, I think I applied to like 11 or 12 colleges. So 20 is like an absolute maximum. I think realistically like 15 is a decent maximum. The only reason I put a number even as high as 20 is because sometimes there are students that apply to like.

Seven BSMD programs. And again, those are all super reaches. So for like, there’s a student that like applied to like seven BS MD programs and then four reaches four targets and like, let’s say six, six-ish, nine-ish, um, like reaches like all the ibs. Sure, maybe they’d applied to 20. But again, I think more realistically I’d probably say like maximum 15 because writing all these applications is so time consuming.

You’re also doing it while being a senior. So it’s not like you’re, you get a vacation, like you, you’re still being a full-time student. Um, applying to colleges, it’s like basically like taking an extra class sometimes even feels like an extra, the workload of two classes during the fall of your, um, senior year.

So don’t over burn yourself by applying so broadly just ’cause you can. Um, but I’d probably say like probably eight, eight to 15 is a sweet spot, but I’d say like an absolute minimum of like six and an absolute maximum, I’d say of 20.

Um, and then so other, you know, I think we talked about the concept already of like this target reach favorable, which is the same thing as safety and aspirational schools, which aspirational, I think it was like a very high reach. So Right. Favorable. AKA safety, that’s a school that you feel really confident that you’ll get into.

Um, I think for a lot of people, again, it depends on your application. It could be like, uh, a nearby school or, um, I know for myself it was like, like my, my, my state, the state school in city of Illinois, that I felt really confident that I would get into that was like my safety, um, target. Like is like kind of like at your level, uh, schools that, you know, people and your peers have gotten into reach is like a school.

You’re not really sure if you’ll be accepted or not. Um, and then aspirational versus reach. I’d say like all IVs, all BSMD programs are aspirational. Um, the big 10 takeaway from this is you really need to talk to like a college, like some kind of counselor to assess like, what are these different schools for your personal profile.

So I know at my high school, I got a sense of this by like talking to my, my college, like we had school advisors and if you’re at a school that ranks, for example, they might say like, oh, you’re in the top x rank. Usually people in their top X rank at our school, these are their targets and safeties and reaches.

Um, so yeah.

Anesha: Mm-hmm.

Ishaani: Um, this, I think this is a really great and important slide. What are factors that you should take into account in removing college from your list? I think it’s very easy to get a very trigger happening to like, oh, I gotta apply here and here and here. And then you blink in your, your ecologist is like.

25 schools and you’re like, oh my God, I don’t want like 25 different essays. ’cause remember, you’re not just writing your college f essay. All these schools have like supplemental essays and it’s not just like one essay per school, it’s oftentimes multiple essays per school. So if you apply to like 20 colleges, you’re basically like, let’s say there’s like three supplements per school, you’re signing up to write 60 essays.

Um, and you might think, oh, if I can double dip and overlap, and definitely there’s tons of double dipping and reusing of language, but it’s a lot of time and a lot of effort. So I think the most important thing is like really asking yourself, would you really wanna go there? Um, I think, I think you kinda have to take a step back and think about like what are your deal breaker factors.

Um, like, you know, geography, I think I already talked about it prior, but like distance from home. I think some people are like, I wanna be able to be in driving distance of home. Like if I have a family emergency, if there’s someone going on. My family is really important to me. They rely on me a lot. I need to be within my, I need to be able to like have my parents pick me up if something happens or have a family member pick me up or drive home myself if something happens.

Um, I think urban versus rural setting is really important. Like, I know, I knew for myself personally, I’m in New York City as a resident now and I love it, but I really, I knew that I really did not wanna be in a city as big as New York City as an undergrad student. And honestly hindsight, I probably wouldn’t have been wanted to be in New York City as a medical student.

And so with that in mind, I didn’t apply to any, like, I think Columbia and NYU are amazing institutions and like I would’ve been so happy there academically, but I knew I didn’t wanna be in a huge urban city, like New York City as a student, so I didn’t even apply to them. Um, at the end, other end of things, I knew that I liked.

You know, I grew up in Chicago suburbs. Uh, I liked being in like suburban urban areas. I applied to like plenty of schools in Chicago, like more of like a medium sized, or not as huge as New York City, kinda city. Uh, but I also knew that places that were extremely rural, I knew I had maybe not kind of get aboard there.

Like I, I like being in cities. Um, I love nature, I love going on hikes with my friends, but I can’t imagine myself living in those places. So for me personally, for example, like a place like Dartmouth, I was like, that’s an amazing school. I know so many people that are so happy there, but I don’t think that I’m that outdoorsy type that would be happy.

And someone that’s relatively in the middle of nowhere and didn’t apply to like a lot of like schools, like those small liberal arts schools in the northeast because I wanted to be in a bigger city. Um, I think also student culture, thinking about what’s the average student there? Is that your kind of person?

I think that’s also something to keep in mind. I think a lot of times, of course, like there are stereotypes you might hear like, oh, this school is like really fratty or jockey or this school’s like really, like people that are like super into um, like social causes. And I’m like, I don’t know if I’ll really fit in, for example.

I think it’s important to keep that all in mind, but also know that within a school there might be a stereotypical student, but there’s also students of like a wide variety of backgrounds. So you’ll maybe eventually find your people. Um, so keep that in mind, but know that again, that’s a stereotype.

There’s obviously like a lot of different students that go there.

So I’ve kind of given all this general information that’s on helpful in how to build a college list. Then you’re probably asking yourself, okay, like, well, how do I even get a sense of like, what are even all the colleges out there? Um, there’s a lot of online resources for like, looking into college, for example.

I know there’s like big future, which is I think run by the like college board, the people that make like the SATI remember when I was applying to college or something called like the FIS Guide, which like a physical book that like, kind of like described all the colleges. Maybe I’m showing my age a little bit by noting that I don’t know if people use it anymore to be honest.

Um, and again, speaking to your resources, people around you, speaking to your upperclassmen friends, of course, advisor, uh, you know, serve programs like CollegeAdvisor.com. We do a really fantastic job of providing, um, students with like a quick list, um, and more like an in depth list, especially if you work with our, our team on what’s an appropriate place, place to look into and apply to.

I know the CollegeAdvisor is a blog as well. You can look at things too. I remember my high school, they had this like internal portal where you could see people’s grades and GPAs and if they got into schools. So that’s also a place you can look into as well. So talk to your personal school resources too and to kinda wrap things up, my final piece of advice, it’s never too early to start thinking about these things.

Um, that being said, if you’re in, I say that, but also enjoy your life. Um, in that a lot of what you’ll be speaking about in your college experience is things that you did and you’re passionate and excited about. So don’t let this consume so much Headspace that you gotta enjoy the journey because the, the joy of the journey of the learning and becoming who you are in, in college and the end of middle school, that shows and that is what helps you become the person you wanna be.

And then. Share those like explanations on what you learned in your college process. Don’t just do an activity for the end point of going to college. Um, if I could leave you with anything, it’s just ensuring that you apply to those appropriate numbers and targets and safeties. The worst, worst, worst thing you can do is like apply to,

and then you apply to like maybe like one or two targets in safety and you’re like, oh, I’ll get into it. And then you can end up with the, go through the process and be like, wow, I really don’t have that many, like targets and safeties, nothing’s guaranteed. College is so competitive and you wanna feel like you have a good number of schools you’re excited about that you can pick from.

So please make sure you have your appropriate numbers of targets and safeties on your list. The reaches are all cherries on top, but you should be able to like look at your list and ask yourself, if I got into zero of these reaches, would I still be happy? If I got into zero of these targets, zero of these reaches and only my safeties would I still be happy?

So. Think about in the worst case scenario. And then with that in mind, you should have like a good number of special safeties and targets on your list. Again, you need to get a sense of if schools are targets or safeties or reaches. You gotta ask advisors to assess you and assess your profile. And then again, I always like finishing with this point.

You can be successful at any college. It’s what you do there, not where you go. So. Those are my 2 cents on building a competitive pre-med and BS MD college list and I really look forward to you hearing from, from all of you guys and answering your questions. Alright,

Anesha: thank you so much Ani. We’re gonna move on to the q and a portion, uh, tonight’s webinar, uh, the way that it will work.

Um, I’ll read through the questions that you all submitted in the q and a tab. Share them in the public chat so you can see them and then read them aloud to give us any, an opportunity to give an answer. If your q and a tab is not letting you submit questions, just double check that you joined the webinar through the custom link you received in your email and not through the CollegeAdvisor webinar page.

You might have to log out, log back in, um, but even if it is is not working, just know that the webinar is recording and so you can always come back, um, and check at any later time. Alright, the way, let’s get started with our question. The first question I wanted to ask you, um, someone asked this just for.

Clarity’s sake. They wanted to know what were all of the BSMD programs that you applied to, if you recall?

Ishaani: Yeah. Oh my gosh, it was a minute ago, but I think for myself, I applied to, like, I don’t even know if I can list off the top of my head. I remember the ones I applied to. I applied to the one at University of Pittsburgh.

Um, I applied to Northwestern, which I think since then shut down. I don’t think it won this anymore. I applied to one at Medical College. I, of course applied to Brown, which is where I went. Um, I again was from Chicago area, so I grew up in Illinois. Um, a lot of BSMD programs are state specific, so like only for residents of that state.

So the University of Illinois at Chicago had like a u University like Illinois resident only program that I applied to. Um, I think, I think those are the major ones I applied to.

Anesha: Yeah. Um, and you were right in that there are some that are very state specific or geographically specific. Um, I, there are, I think in the chat I’ve dropped a couple lists of, um, schools so that students can’t see the variety of BSMD programs that are out there.

Um, all right. My next question for you, just to get back on the i topic of list. Um, how many targets, reach and reach and safety schools do you recommend? So getting back to as close to a specific number as you feel comfortable with providing.

Ishaani: Yeah, so I’d say again, three to four targets. Three to four safeties, um, and then reaches like effectively unlimited.

Uh, again, I had discussed with an advisor to like, this is like my really general, but of, of course, take this grain of salt, talk to advisors about it as well. So with all that in mind, like I’d say min, absolute, absolute minimum of apply to six schools. Absolute, probably maximum of like 20 ish. And then I think the actual sweet spot, that was probably like between like eight and 12.

I think I applied to like 11 or 12 schools including BS MD programs. To be clear,

Anesha: I’ll also just say that the common app limits you to 20 now. So if you, so if you wanna do more than 20, you’ll have to create a separate account with a different account, um, portal. But yeah, the 20, I believe the common app limits you to, limits you to 20 now.

Um, okay. Yes, I think that is great.

Ishaani: That’s good. I find more than 20, I would be probably tearing my hair up. Um, I also know that, to be frank, like I do, a lot of the advising I do right now is advising in the BSMD specific space. So I, I know a lot of the primary advisors do a lot more of like the hands-on like list building.

And I kind of more chime in with the BSMD specific thing. So the, the, the specifics as to like college, uh. Common app limited to 20 I wasn’t even aware of. So that’s good to know.

Anesha: No, yeah, it is a blessing. Um, uh, at least for the, the day-to-day advisor. Uh, okay. Uh, someone asked, and I guess this is relevant to some degree to the idea of lists, but if you plan to go to medical school, does a pre-med undergraduate school, you go to matter.

So, and I think some people are debating prestige location. Is it okay if I go to a smaller undergraduate school if I go to a more competitive medical school? So I’m just your thoughts on how pre-med, how your undergraduate experience might set you up for medical school.

Ishaani: I think that’s such a good question and even like one that like is, is hard to answer.

Um, in that I, again, I have, so like I went to med school, so many of my classmates, I went to a variety of different med schools. I had classmates that went to Princeton. I had classmates that went to like. State schools. Um, again, it’s what you do there, uh, not necessarily where you go. Like it’s a huge range.

Um, and then you have to kind of ask yourself, do you wanna be a big fish in a small pond? Do you wanna be, um, you know, you wanna be in this like massive pond of where everyone’s amazing, but you gotta like really fight your way and to be a fantastic there. So I think just, there’s really no right or wrong answer.

Um, just go somewhere that you feel like aligns with your interest because like, if you sit, let’s say like you’re like, I love computational biology, and you go to a liberal arts college and there’s like not that much computational biology, and then you have to kind of like shift your narrative to be like, oh, I like really love the humanities.

When you’re not a humanities person, like then you have to like kind of force yourself into doing something you don’t really love and the passion’s not there. You’re of course not gonna be excited about it. And then the, the genuineness won’t, it won’t show unfortunately. So just try going some you think you’re interest alive.

Um, prestige can take you so far, but you know, there’s, again, I have classmates and, and co-residents that went to like, smaller colleges and they’re, we’re all at the same residency program now. Like, we’re all exactly the same now.

Anesha: All right, we’ll, we’ll use that answer to take a quick break to talk a little bit more about, um, CollegeAdvisor.

Uh, so for those in the room who aren’t already working with us, we know how overwhelming the admissions process can be. CollegeAdvisors team of over 300 former admissions officers and experts are ready to help you and your family navigate the college admissions process through one-on-one advising sessions and essay editing.

Through our digital platform, CollegeAdvisor has had 10,000 total lifetime clients, and, um, uh, currently has a 4.8 out of five rating on Trustpilot. Uh, we have worked, oops, sorry.

Um. Wow. Sorry. All right. I’m gonna have these, some weird technical, I’m gonna push back to the questions for you. Um, see, is my computer just shut down? Um, okay. Someone asked, uh, does summer do summer pre-med programs, um, for various colleges add value to your application for pre-Med or BSMD?

Ishaani: I think it’s a really great question.

Um, so like summer experiences, like how should be figuring out what’s a great summer experience for you? My general piece of advice when it comes to these, when you apply to like the, your summer programs or summer internships, and then there are these, like summer, like pre-summer programs, what I kind of call like these like pay to play programs.

Um, I often find that the pay to play programs where you have to like pay money to do like a summer course. Those tend to look less impressive, um, on applications compared to, like, I worked as an unpaid intern in a research lab. Um, ’cause often the pay to play ones like, uh, you know, like everyone gets them, everyone if you pay, then you get into the program.

Whereas of course, like they’re oftentimes really great scholarship opportunities and that’s a totally different story. Um, but finding your own opportunity and building your own opportunity with like a local, uh, hospital or research lab, I think that what that really shows, which is different is like your initiative to seek out and make this opportunity and that’s what really makes you stand out.

Um, so those programs are great. Um, that being said, I think the internships obviously make you sparkle a little more.

Anesha: Yeah. But yeah, there have been a few questions about what, what, what should they prioritize overshadowing versus volunteering versus internships versus research. And I think the respons would be to try to do as much of it as possible.

But, um, you know, if you had clarify, ’cause folks there have been a few different iterations of questions of like, what should I do over these things? So for, for non-academic extracurricular programs, what would you recommend?

Ishaani: Yeah, so I, I think my kind of classic formula for BSMD applicants is, when you think of medicine, it’s like, I like think like the art and science of medicine, right?

A lot of being a doctor is scientific knowledge, it’s studying it’s curiosity. You have to be a really strong student and a very, like, curious and someone that loves learning to be a doctor. But also remember that the, at the end of the day, medicine is really a service oriented career. You are speaking with people and patients of different backgrounds, different education levels, different lived experiences every single day.

So. You’re talking to people every single day. So you can be the smartest person in the room, but if you don’t have the people skills, you’re probably not gonna be the best doctor. That being said, now that I’m a doctor, I can say that there’s some, um, substitute in medicine are way more people facing and some that are much less.

Obviously as like a psychiatrist, you’re speaking to patients a lot more than if you’re a surgeon or a radiologist. Um, so, but that being said, when it, when it comes to med school applications, they’re of course looking for people that understand both the art and the science of being a, a doctor. And I, when you kind of think about volunteering opportunities and like opportunities, I like to think of the art of medicine is the volunteering opportunity.

So getting involved in volunteering opportunities, showing that you’re like directly talking and in impacting and working with people. Um, I like to think of volunteering is like indirect, indirect volunteering opportunities. Indirect is like I created a nonprofit that I don’t know helps fund education for people in different country that like I, so they’re kind of indirectly helping them, but are you like directly interacting with the people that you’re helping?

Not as much. And then there’s also more direct volunteering. Like I volunteer an afterschool program for elementary students in my area, or like a reading club for elementary students. And that’s more direct volunteering in that you’re working directly with the people that you are helping. I think these direct stories where you’re like really talking to people and kinda have your boots on the ground, as you could say, I find stories about that are a lot more compelling.

So try getting direct volunteering opportunities for some people that’s, you know, this like. Working with younger, um, people like elementary school students. I know a lot of students that have worked with people volunteering in like senior, uh, assisted like living facilities. Um, so that’s like kind of the art of medicine.

So try getting those volunteering opportunities in and then also try getting the science opportunities in. So that could be research at a lab that could be shadowing. Um, so that’s how I think you can try conveying that you understand both the art through the volunteering opportunities of medicine and then the science of medicine through research opportunities.

Anesha: All right, thank you. Uh, I’m gonna go back and finish my plug that I was doing earlier. Apologies. Um, so after analyzing our 2023 through 2025 Data CollegeAdvisor found that our clients who have a strong academic and testing record are 2.6 times more likely to get into an IB leagues. School around three times more likely to get into a top 20 college and around five times more likely to get into Johns Hopkins, UCLA or NYU.

When compared to national acceptance rates, you can increase your odds to take the next step of your college admissions journey by signing up for a free 60 minute strategy session with an admission specialist on our team by using the QR code that is on this screen. During that meeting, you’ll receive a preliminary assessment of your academic profile, along with some initial recommendations on what you can do to stand out.

At the end, you’ll also learn more about our premium packages, which offer you connection with an expert who can help you in building your college list, editing your essays and much more. CollegeAdvisor will be there for the whole process, keeping it moving with our q and a. Um, the next question I have for you, looking at that time.

Um, oh, so getting back to the idea list, someone asked how does someone balance the number of BSMD programs they’ve applied to, um, with the regular number of schools they’ve applied to, how should B SMDs kind of count? We, we said they were aspirational, but how many

Ishaani: aspirations? Always aspirational.

Exactly. Yeah. So they’re always aspirational. They’re like the same. ’cause a lot of these BSMD programs you’ll, like, their acceptance races are less than 5% for like, I’d say a large, large, vast majority of them. So they’re always aspirational. Um, so let’s say you’re applying to four targets. And again, like I know for myself, I applied to BSMD programs, but I also applied to like high, you know, like really strong undergrad institutions I was excited about.

So I, I think for me, I think the way I did it was like maybe like three or three safeties, like five-ish. I don’t even remember honestly, I, I’m making these numbers up, but I all that to say I applied to some safeties, some targets. Some reaches that were like traditional four year undergrad program reaches, and then also some, um, BSMD reaches.

So I made sure that for me, I was, it was important that I have some reaches that are just like traditional four year colleges and some reaches that are BSMD, um, because how they only picked one, then I’d be like, oh, if I don’t get into a BSMD program, then I only have my target schools left and I wanna have some, like reaches, some reaches that I’m excited about that are great four year institutions.

Um, and again, that kind of goes back to the point of like you have, I guess now that there’s a cap of 20, you have effectively, like if you’re adding applications to your, you’re adding, you should be adding like, again, the reaches or the sprinkles on top so you can keep adding those BSMB programs, um, as reaches

Anesha: Yeah.

Someone just asked, um, did they, how did the applications for BSM B programs differ from traditional colleges? And just to, for you to answer it, but I can also answer audibly is just that it is the basic college application and then there’s typically an additional. Round of applications, materials, or essays that you have to submit after you submit your initial college application.

Exactly. Um, some programs are competitive enough that you may not get invited to apply for the BSMD program, um, once you submit your, your standard undergraduate application. So, okay. Sorry, that was one question I wanted to answer really quickly on the topic. Uh, the next question I wanted to ask you though was, um, oh, someone, this is an interesting question.

As BSMD programs are more expensive than regular university or college programs, should cost be a factor in building a college list and how should cost play a role?

Ishaani: Yeah, I think college should, I mean, sorry, college should a hundred percent be a factor. Um, uh, BS MD programs. Honestly, it depends. Like if you apply to your in-state BS MD program, you might actually like save a decent amount of money.

So, uh, I think BSMD programs can and often are more expensive, but it’s not like a blanket statement, always true. Um, situation. I think cost should be a factor. That being said, my opinion, I’m always of the opinion of like, apply broadly. You never know what scholarships you’ll get. Apply broadly. And then once you have your acceptances in hand, then you can kind of compare the financials after you have the acceptances in hand.

Um, yeah.

Anesha: Yeah. Okay. Um, all right. Oh, okay. Someone’s asking about the structure of BSMD programs. Uh, someone asked, are you committed to the full eight years? What did you decide halfway through that it’s not for you?

Ishaani: Yeah, totally. Great question. Um, so you are, so also, I don’t know if I explicitly mentioned this webinar, but like a lot of BSMD programs are eight years as in like you get four years of undergrad, four years of, uh, med school, like classic four plus four equals eight.

Some programs are accelerated. A K you do like a three years of a, a bachelor’s and then a four years of an md. Uh, every place is different. Um, and then the question of like, hey, like what if you decide midway, like, you know what, being a doctor is not for me. I don’t want a career in medicine. And that’s actually, that actually happens in Brown Plain.

Either are a lot of people that are like, you know what? I would rather do a work in industry. I would rather have like a career more in activism. I’d rather pursue a JD and become a lawyer. You, you can always do that. Um, no one’s gonna force you to go to med school. That being said, when, to be honest, when I was applying, I kind of, I was keeping that in mind.

I think I was pretty sure I wanted to be a doctor, but I was like, well, what if I change my mind? And keeping that in mind since I was like kind of 75% sure I wanted be a doctor, I was like, what if that 25% kind of pops up? Uh, when I was applying to BS 70 programs, there were certain programs that I was like.

If I just got an undergraduate degree from here, I worried that would ha affect if I was able to do, um, how I was able to do, like, pivot to another career. So then I had to really think long and hard about the caliber of the undergrad institution I was going to and like, would I be okay getting an undergrad degree from that school if I was to like ditch the MD part?

Um, and I think I felt really lucky that at Brown, like if I was to pivot, I’d still have a degree from Brown. Um, but again, that’s like a personal decision you have to make. If you are a hundred percent certain that you want to be an MD with like, and you’re feeling so confident about it, um, which again is a really hard thing to feel very, very confident at, at, at the age of 17 or 18.

Like do you even really know what being a doctor entails? Like, to be frank, did I really know what being a doctor entailed when I was applying to these BS MD programs when I was 17 or 18? No. Um. But if, if you feel like that’s you, you can apply to these BS MD programs and maybe like go to a slightly quote unquote less prestigious BS and MD program.

But you’ll know that you’ll get an MD and that’s the assurance you want and then it’s worth it for you. You have to, honestly, it’s a lot of soul searching. Mm-hmm. Um, and I feel very grateful. Like I think applying to these programs, it’s a bit of a leap of faith of like, do I really wanna be a doctor? I’m like 18.

I don’t know. I think for me, it really worked out. I love my career, I love my job. Residency’s hard, the hours are tough. Um, the work can be very emotionally challenging as well. Um, but I’m really lucky that I love it. I obviously know that to be frank, there’s some residents where it’s really hard and they’re going through it.

And there are people of course, that have like qualms or regrets about going into medicine. Like I don’t wanna trick code it as well.

Anesha: Um, someone asked if you, someone is interested in other healthcares. They said, if you don’t do A-B-S-M-D program and you wanna do other careers, what are the types of programs you should look for?

Ishaani: Yeah. Then I think you should think about gonna like a really strong undergrad institution and getting, um, a medical degree after. I guess my question is, are you referring to like becoming a, a physician or other careers within healthcare? Like, oh, I’m thinking about becoming, um, like a PA or I’m thinking about going into PT or occupational therapy or speech language pathology.

So, to be really, really frank, I, again, I was being a BSM B program. I knew I wanted to be a physician and I became a physician. So do I know a ton about like what the application process is like to get into PA school or pharm D school or PT or OT school? I’m gonna really, Frank and I, I don’t, um,

Anesha: I think it suffice it to say they all have their own sets of application processes.

Exactly, exactly. It’s not like you walk away, you don’t go to md, you still have to go to SLP school is, it’s a bit shorter. It requires a different set of tests, but almost every, I think field in the healthcare industry requires some sort of certification or, or school post your undergrad. If that’s fair.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

Ishaani: I, I don’t know if I could.

Anesha: You dunno. I I think that, I think that’s the case. I I feel fairly confident in that being the case. Okay. Um, our last question for today, and you kind of answered this, but from the perspective of a student applying, what’s something you wish students knew when they were applying to these types of programs?

It sounds like you were talking about a little bit of soul searching. Is there a key kind of soul searchy question you should be thinking about as you decide?

Ishaani: I’m gonna be so honest, you don’t really know what being a doctor’s like until you become a doctor. Um. I think I remember in high school, like I watched Grey’s Anatomy and I was like, oh, maybe that’s what being a doctor is like.

It’s not, there’s a lot of, uh, being a doctor that’s not glamorous. Um, but, and there’s a lot of it that’s like emotionally very taxing and very hard, um, so that the lows can be low. Um, that being said, the highs and the way that you’re able to connect and like really bear witness in people’s lives and, uh, is really special.

Um, again, I have like a lot of amazing, fantastic high achieving friends that are both inside and outside of medicine. People in like fan at the top of their fields in tech, in finance, and all these different fields. Um, and again, it’s like maybe me getting a little bit philosophical right now, to be frank.

Uh, I think some people like love their job, but I, I definitely have friends and more. So I’m like, corporate jobs are like, oh, like what’s the point? Like why am I doing what I’m doing? Like, ugh, I am gonna be really honest and grateful that I never have to question the, like the purpose and like what I’m like, why my job is important.

I never have to question like what I’m contributing tos society and like, am I really helping? Like, I feel like really fulfilled by my job every single day. And I think that’s such a privilege. And I think being a doctor is such a privilege and I’m really grateful for it.

Anesha: Okay. All right. We will leave it there for today.

Thank you so much Dr. Khatri for um, sharing your experiences with us. Thank you all for joining us. If you haven’t been able to scan the QR code and schedule your free assessment with us, just keep your browser open until the webinar officially ends. At that time, you’ll be redirected to the booking page.

But until then, we hope you gain some strategies and tips for building an intentional strategic college list as a pre-med applicant and we hope that you’ll join us for our future webinars. Definitely check out our webinar page that there are tons of other webinars about BSMD programs for any questions we didn’t get to answer today.

Um, but as until next time, take care and have a great evening everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you Ishaani.

Ishaani: Bye-bye.