Boosting Your College Application with Strong Letters of Recommendation

Webinar Transcription

2024-11-25 – Boosting Your College Application with Strong Letters of Recommendation

Lydia: Hello, everyone. Welcome to, “Boosting Your College Application With Strong Letters of Recommendation.” My name is Lydia Hollon, and I’m going to be your moderator tonight. I’m a senior advisor at CollegeAdvisor and have been with the company for three years now. And in addition to advising students, I’m also a proud co captain of our essay review team and a graduate of New York University.

In addition to my work with CollegeAdvisor, I am also an education consultant and a former high school teacher. To orient everyone with our webinar timing for tonight, we’re going to start off with a presentation, then answer your questions in a live Q& A. On the sidebar, you can download our slides and start submitting questions in the Q& A tab.

As an FYI, we will be recording this session so that you can review the webinar again later, so don’t worry if you have to go to the bathroom or get a glass to drink. We can always. Post it online so that you can watch it again later. Now, let’s meet our presenter.

Joanne: Hi, everyone. My name is Joanne Pluff. I am currently an associate vice president at a large HBCU in Washington, D.C. Previously, I was the associate dean of admission and multicultural recruitment at Hamilton College and senior associate director of admission at Utica College. So I’m excited to chat with you guys today. Thank you

Lydia: Great. So before we get started, we’re going to do a quick poll to figure out what grade you all are in. And Joanne, while I have that poll open and give our attendees an opportunity to answer, I’m curious, how was it for you asking your teachers for letters of recommendation? Were you nervous? Did you feel like, confident about ensuring know who you’re going to ask?

Joanne: Um, so I knew who I wanted to ask, but I think for me, it was that the people that I was going to ask had like specific rules about it. So it didn’t make me nervous because for example, one of my teachers, Because he was so well liked, um, he only would do X amount per year. So it was like this weird, like touch and go of, should I ask, should I not?

Will they accept me? Um, so it was a little bizarre, but in the end of the day, I ended up picking two teachers. Um, my guidance counselor wrote one and then I was in, um, the chamber orchestra, which is an AP class. So I ended up having that person write one for me as well.

Lydia: Nice. Yeah. Uh, when I taught high school, I was one of those teachers that had to have a bunch of requirements because I was a coach and I taught English.

So and it’s super

Joanne: overwhelming, right? Because how can you say no, you know how important they are. You love all your students. So it’s, it’s hard.

Lydia: Yeah. So definitely the earlier you can get ahead on that kind of stuff, the better.

Joanne: Absolutely.

Lydia: So looking at our responses. Seems like our audience is 100 percent in that other category, so likely in that parent vote.

Um, so definitely you’re in the right place to help your student, make sure that they’re prepared to ask their teachers for letters of rec, and make sure that they’re providing all the resources that they need. So that their teacher can write them a strong one. I’ll go ahead and pass it off to you, Joanne, so that you can get us started with the presentation.

Joanne: All right. Great. Um, so remember, this is my point of view, and I hope this will help you with the process or those who are being asked. I hope this helps you as well. Uh, happy to take questions at the end, but not during, because it’s hard for me to see as we’re going. So first thing we’re going to talk about is what role does the letter of recommendation play in the application process?

So, um, I will preface this with, there’s a reason that typically universities ask, especially your highly selective universities, because it allows us to gain another person’s perspective on the applicant. So while your application can only speak and say certain things, it allows us to have more information about you as a student.

So the first thing I think about is. When the student writes their essay, supplementals, their extracurriculars, and their academic history will only show so much. So truly the recommendation can validate your skills and qualities. So if you really are proficient in math and you write about math and you’re a mathlete, your math teacher probably is the best, sweetest person to write this letter of recommendation and also can confirm your skills and qualities.

It also adds a bit of credibility and perspective of your personal qualities. Now remember, and I always say this, admissions is a people process, and we are learning and reading about you as we’re reviewing your application. So, um, It’s truly important to get a different perspective of your personal quality so that we can truly understand you as an applicant and as a student.

The other thing is if you are an applicant that is applying to a highly selective university and, or just a, um, high demand major, It’s an easy way for you to differentiate yourself between the applicant pool. So perhaps you helped find a new kind of bacteria, or maybe you started an amazing club at your school and this teacher can talk about that.

That’s really important because every student is required to submit an application, your, um, list of ECAs, your, essay, but we really need to know what makes you different and sets you apart from the pool. It also gives us a lot of insight for your fit at the institution. Um, when I’m asked at my job to write letters of recommendation, I always ask to have some information about the schools that they’re applying to so that I can think in my head and formulate why that student is the best fit.

So a letter of recommendation kind of is a stamp And then finally, it’s your endorsement, right? So Like Lydia and I were saying, in my case, my guidance counselor was required to do a letter of recommendation, but the teachers that I had asked were typically people who didn’t write them. And I say that not to say, you know, I’m better than everybody, but I say it to say that this endorsement from a specific person, because admissions officers are broken down, typically by region, will carry a lot of weight.

So if you go to X school and know, and they know that. This teacher or professor only writes X amount of recommendations. That’s a pretty big deal. We definitely want to know and we always want that stamp of approval from somebody on the internal side. All right. So what makes a strong letter of recommendation stand out in admissions committees?

So now realize I already had stated that your application and the application process is a people process, right? So we’re always looking for ways to students. for students to stand out within that process. Um, the first thing is detail and specificity. We typically, Intel, I’ve read thousands of applications at this point.

I typically know when it’s a form letter, right? So if you’re asking someone and they’re not going to be specific, it doesn’t work to your vantage point. They’re never going to tell you that. However, we truly recommend asking people that really want to write them so that we know that they’re going to add that detail.

It also. The letter of recommendation gives us a clear understanding of the applicant’s strengths. So if you are more proficient in STEM or perhaps you’re better suited for the humanities, this is the way for you to stand out and truly, again, get that stamp of approval. For students who may have had more of an upward trajectory or a path of growth, this is an opportunity for you to talk about that.

The best letters of recommendation are well written and structured. They have a clear beginning, middle, and end. They tell the story of the student’s applicant history, what we don’t see from their application. So again, it’s important to truly have a positive relationship with these people. It can highlight your personal traits beyond your academic skills.

So perhaps it could be an anecdote about something that you did in class, or maybe it’s a conversation that the person has had with you that truly left a mark on their day. their well being. All that information is super important. And then, um, I have to chuckle. So, for example, I was reading an application a couple of weeks ago where a student’s application was pretty well written, the letter of recommendation was fine, and literally the person wrote the end.

So we want to know in conclusion, you know, by my account at some point, tell us why this student makes a great applicant. So you want to ensure that, again, you have a Intro, middle, and end. And while you can’t control that, I’m hoping that you guys have access to see so that perhaps you can pull those letters out.

All right, so Lydia and I were just saying, how does a student approach potential recommenders to recommend or request a letter? So it definitely is an awkward thing. And before you even are, um, Selecting them. You have to think about who would be the best representation. So yes, it may be amazing to have your AP Chem teacher write that letter of recommendation.

However, how well are you doing in that class? Have you had a positive experience? Have you done well in the class? or maybe you didn’t do so well in the beginning and now you’re doing better. That’s information that will help you decide. You want to make sure that the person that is writing your recommendation can really truly represent you well.

The other thing that’s super important is request it early. I am a big proponent of doing it early. Right now, I think I’m I have four students waiting on letters of recommendation, but they’re not due until January. So I try to get them done a month in advance. And I don’t want to wait because a recommendation letter is so important that we want to make sure that we’re giving the school the right amount of information.

So requesting early so that that person has time to prepare and really think about that request. And also make the request personally. So, you know, if you’re in a big high school, I went to a fairly large high school in Massachusetts, um, the two people that I requested my letters of recommendation from, I did see on a daily basis, but if you don’t see them make a trip down to their classroom or take time out of your day, um, go to the football field, the baseball field, wherever it is, and ask them, have a little, you know, situation prepared, um, but request them personally so that they feel like you really do value their time.

The other important thing is to provide context. So it is really hard as a person who’s asked for letters of recommendation for us to write about you if we don’t see you on a daily basis, but also don’t have a lot of information about what you’re going to do. So if you are a student that has changed your mind, if you’re working on it, if you have no idea, give that information to your requesters so that they can truly write a letter about your personal growth.

Be respectful. Be courteous. Don’t be rude when you’re asking this person and give them space to say no, right? So I typically will always say yes, unless somebody asks me at the absolute last minute, which is truly hard sometimes for me to pull off just based on work. So think about that. If you’re asking somebody who is required to do something within three weeks, and they are in the middle of teaching for maybe a state exam, maybe, you know, they’re in the middle of a season, It’s hard and don’t be upset if they say no, it’s their God given right and you’ve waited too long, but that’s okay.

It means you have to pivot and move on to something else. If your recommender says yes, express the utmost amount of gratitude because I’ll tell you the best letters recommendation come from people who truly care. And if the person is saying yes, just because you’ve asked them, then. That letter is not going to be so great.

So express gratitude because it does take time. I think a guidance counselor had once told me it takes them like an hour to an hour and 15 minutes to write each letter of recommendation, which is a lot of time. Now imagine if you’re the high school counselor at a bigger school, let’s say your caseload is around 200.

That is a lot of students, and then it’s important to be realistic with your timelines and updates, and we’ll talk about that in one of my upcoming slides. All

right, so what specific information should students provide to their recommenders to help them write a cappella letter? I always recommend, um, giving The recommender, your personal information. So outside of just your, I’m so and so when I attend this high school, where do you live? Do you commute very far to get to your high school?

Have you always lived in this area? That’s the personal information that we’re talking about. The other thing to talk about, which is pretty important is the goals for your next steps. So if it is going to college, trade school, if your end goal is medical school, whatever you’re doing. Outline that for them.

Um, and you can be a quick like paragraph synopsis or a literal outline saying what’s going to happen next. Then listing your, uh, list of accomplishments and achievements. Obviously any kind of awards that they would have been personally affected by or, um, contributed to would be excellent to highlight those, but anything that you’ve done within the four years that are noteworthy is important to provide to them.

A quick list of the colleges that you’re applying to along with details, just stating. You know, it’s such and such school and I’m applying early action or early decision or, you know, I’m doing this major. That is important because we want to be able to tie it back to the class or the experience that you’ve had.

So if you’re asking your AP bio teacher and you’re applying to only schools for biology, it would be pretty important to tell them that, um, so that they know through the application process. Then of course submission information. So are you applying early action, early decision? Are you applying rolling?

Are you applying regular decision? Whatever that is. Again, we talk a lot of CollegeAdvisor about being organized with a spreadsheet. You can literally copy and paste that spreadsheet for that person so that they know what they are assisting you with. And the final thing I would say is Just give them a great idea of what you hope the letter would convey.

So maybe you’ve had that upward trajectory. Maybe you struggled a little bit because of a learning deficit or, um, disorder. Maybe you were undiagnosed for a while. Maybe, you know, something happened with your family. Maybe you just had a tough time. Um, you can ask them to speak about that. If there’s something, if there is something that you have had in your past that needs to be addressed, this would be the person to, um, ask to.

To write about that. Alrighty. So this is kind of an important slide. So I hope everybody’s taking notes just about the different types of recommended recommenders. So teachers, counselors, employers and how they play in the application process. So your teachers truly think about this, right? So junior year, senior year, even sophomore year teachers, they can speak to your intellectual ability and your potential.

So they’re the ones that see you on a daily basis every other day, whatever your class schedule is. They know what you can do and what you can aspire to be because they’re the ones that are pushing you. As far as progress, they also know what you have been able to do in the time that they’ve spent with you.

So your teachers are truly like a part, a big part of the window into your world on a daily basis. They also can give us an idea of what your social skills are. So can you work in groups? If this is a large institution that has a lot of group projects, that would be important. And your social skills, you know?

So colleges, we’re always looking for students to connect with our campus community and we want to know if you fit. So a teacher can tell us how you do in certain situations because there’s something like a classroom environment. Employers, I would say, um, can talk about your ethics, your reliability and your workplace skills.

So those soft skills that you learn, whether it’s customer service, how nice are you? How do you handle stress? Let’s say, you know, you’re working retail at the holiday season. They can give us some insight on the kind of like background outside of school person you are. Research advisors, alumni, volunteer coordinators can give character references.

So have they truly, have you truly worked hard? What was the research project that you worked on? Um, your coach, did you overcome adversity when you were benched for a little bit and you were able to rise above? Those are the kind of anecdotes, anecdotes that we’re looking for from your coaches. And then your counselor, um, recommendation is pretty important because it gives us a more holistic view of your applicant.

So typically guidance counselors have students from first year, freshman year, all the way up to your senior year and beyond, of course, and they meet with you and are required to meet with you on pretty, at least a pretty regular basis. So the counselor can give a more holistic view, meaning they can talk to us about.

Your academic ability, your work ethic, your ability for social skills. They can truly say, you know, they’ve worked so hard and we’re able to gain a spot in the national honor society. And always, if there’s a blip on your application that needs to be addressed, such as a bad, poor grade or. a lot of absences, your guidance counselor can provide that context.

Lydia: All right, so we’re going to take a brief pause from the presentation to do another quick poll, which is, where are you in the application process? So Joanne, I know you gave a lot of great tips about how students can make sure that they’re planning ahead to make it easier for advisors and teachers to write strong letters of recommendation.

But if you had to pick one piece of information or one resource that you think is most important for students to provide to their recommender, what do you think is the most useful thing that they can give them?

Joanne: Honestly, for me, is if it’s a subject area and Like, they can provide some kind of narrative based on work that’s been done that’s related to that subject is super important.

So, for example, I oversee 80 students on campus, and when they ask for letters of recommendation, sure, I can write like a generic one, but if they say, I really need to tell them how hard I work under stress, it’s easier for me to conceptualize the letter. Based on, okay, let me think about a time when we had a lot going on and how they fared well.

So context for me is super important and being as specific as possible to that individual that you’ve asked.

Lydia: That makes a lot of sense. So looking at the responses, 50 percent have not started the application process. 25 percent are researching schools and 25 percent are almost done. So we’ve got people kind of across the board, but the good thing is If you’re early in the application process, this is definitely a good time to be thinking about who you might want as a recommender and how you need to make sure that you’re preparing them so they have ample time to write that letter of recommendation.

Joanne: Absolutely.

Lydia: All right, ask back to you.

Joanne: All right, cool. So what are the common pitfalls? Students should avoid when seeking letters of recommendation. So the biggest thing is procrastination. So again, if you are asking somebody to write a letter of recommendation, they need some time. It can’t just be, you know, a couple of minutes.

It’s going to be when they get around to it. Um, I think. Oftentimes people like dedicate time in their day and then have a cycle. So procrastinating means that you won’t get on their first list. And again, this is a human process. So you want the freshest eyes, eyes that are ready to go. Once you ask them, you don’t want it when it’s the middle of November and they’ve done 75 to date.

That’s tough. Um, choosing the wrong recommender, also a common pitfall. You have to be realistic about your goals, your academic ability, and your relationships. So if it’s somebody that you’re iffy, probably shouldn’t go with that. If it’s just somebody that’s super popular and it gets asked all the time, probably the wrong person.

It’s truly important to be, I would say, as honest as possible with this process because you do not want somebody to write a poor letter of recommendation for you. Another huge pitfall is being vague or unclear with the request, so maybe it is required that they fill out a form, maybe they do have to do a narrative, maybe something for them to fill in.

Be specific. For the most part, you guys are all applying to universities that just require just a general letter stating why we think you’re amazing. And you should tell them it is just a average letter talking about why I have excelled at XYZ. That is a specific request. Just saying, you know, can you write a letter of recommendation for me for the university, whatever, isn’t super helpful.

Um, definitely need to check up on people. I think luckily common app will always, if you are applying to a common app school, they’ll send the reminders for those people to upload that information, but not everybody does it. And not everybody is, does it through the common app. So it’s important that you.

continue to follow up with them so that they can, um, ensure to finish your letter of recommendation. Not giving clear submission information. Like I was just saying, some schools have different requirements. Maybe it’s a submission, um, via a link. Maybe it’s a letter to your guidance counselor. Whatever it is, just make sure that you do it.

And then lack of appreciation. So, um, I always ask for a little grace with this when I’m completing this process for students because it is hard. But it’s always nice just to hear a little, thank you so much. You’ve really helped my day. Um, and when you’re sending those follow ups, just say, I know that you’re super busy or I know that it’s a crazy time, whatever statement you decide to say, just acknowledge the time of year and how this could be impacting them.

Alrighty. So can you share examples of an effective anecdote or quant qualities that recommenders can highlight? So definitely academic excellence and curiosity a number one. So if they have the ability to do that, check that off your box. Cool. Leadership and initiative. Again, college campuses are looking for fit.

So we’re looking to see how amazing you would be when placed in our campus community. So are we. You know, students who really like Dungeons and Dragons and, um, skateboarding, or are we a university that is big on research? You want to highlight all of those things. Um, work ethic and perseverance. So, have you had to overcome something?

And when I say overcome, I’m not talking about, like, you know, a divorce or I don’t know, COVID at this point, we’ve all had to overcome that, so it’s not kind of like atypical, but something that you may have had to deal with that would have impacted your learning could be something that the recommender can highlight.

Collaboration and teamwork is always wicked important for students who are applying to co op programs or programs where group work is effective and, you know, highlighted within their curriculum. That’s super important. Problem solving and creativity. Of course, we want to know that you were able to solve a puzzle and how well you did at it.

Got to make sure that you do it and you can have your recommender highlight that communication skills again, even just asking as a skill in itself. So maybe you needed to change at your school. Maybe there was something that you felt was out of line, whatever it is. Something like that would be important, your passion and commitment also excellent, especially when we’re talking about again, those selective schools, it would be great for us to see, you know, how passionate you are on X, Y, Z topic and your commitment to changing that at your school, your emotional intelligence.

Um, and I think growth kind of hand in hand, because we want to know that you’re truly ready for the next step. So if there is some kind of story that can allude and share with us, um, what you’ve learned, we’ll take it. We love reading about it.

What should students do if they don’t receive a letter that they feel doesn’t accurately Represent them. So this is kind of a tricky one. And I was thinking about this when I was writing the answers to this. So on the common application, um, and oftentimes recommenders do not send a letter that they’ve written about a student to a student.

So you may not know, which is why it’s super, super, super, super, super important to select the right person. But on the off chance that you do get a letter of recommendation that you’re able to view and, um, you feel it doesn’t accurately represent you, you need to craft a letter and review the letter, of course, and then craft a response to the letter to write to the admissions office.

So if you truly feel like you’ve been wronged, um, vilified, whatever the conversation is. You should reach out to the guy to the admissions office to explain to them what has happened. And if that letter has gone to every single school you’ve applied to, reach out to them. Oftentimes, um, seeking guidance is important because, uh, schools kind of maneuver through this in various different ways.

So if the school allows you to write a rebuttal, the school that you’re applying to, do it. If you are. You know, able to retract the letter. Some schools that you do that, do that. And then once you reach out to the schools, provide proof. So, you know, if this person says that you stink and you’re lazy and you didn’t do so well on this research project, you should be able to supply grades, transcripts, anything pertaining to those grades to dispute why the person feels the way they do.

It will also say that this is something that typically doesn’t happen, but on an off chance that that does. review, seek guidance, and then reach out to the schools to alert them that whatever they see is grossly inaccurate. Alrighty, so your timeline for requesting and submitting letters of RAC. So two to three months before the due date.

So literally for seniors, students who are getting ready to do this, you would be asking for that letter, you should have asked for that letter back in August, um, or when you start school. So identify the person that you will ask and then gather all of your documents. So CV, um, Any research projects, your resume, a list of extracurriculars, all of that stuff is super important to have ready so that you can submit.

Once you ask them, check in with them and provide reminders. Now, I’m not saying you need to ask them every single day. Every couple of weeks is fine up until the deadline. That’s totally fine. Now, two weeks before the deadline, you can check in, confirm the submission date, and then thank them. Um, and it doesn’t have to be a long thank you.

Just thank you so much for taking your time. I truly appreciate you. This letter is going to help change my future. Anything along those lines would be great.

What final piece of advice would you give students to ensure they make the most of their letters of recommendation? First thing, don’t wait. So for teachers who are truly, I would say, beloved within university or high school settings, don’t wait if you really want them to write it. It’s not going to be possible to do it two weeks before.

Be realistic. Is this person the right person for you? Do you have You know, 15 people that you could ask and of the 15, who’s the best person? If you think they’re a mediocre person, don’t do it. And then of course, be prepared to counter if it’s negative. But in my experience, you kind of really know going into it, who will be the rest, the best person.

And if you’re truly shocked, then be prepared to counter that letter of recommendation.

Lydia: All right. Thank you so much, Joanne. So that’s the end of our presentation portion of the webinar. I hope that you found this information helpful. And remember, you can download the slides from the link in the handouts tab. Now we’re going to move into the live Q& A where I’ll read the questions that you all submit and we’ll talk about them.

So don’t forget that you can use that Q& A. A tab to submit questions. And if it’s not letting you for some reason, just double check that you joined the webinar through the custom link in your email and not from the webinar landing page. All right. So the first question that I’ve got is What should a student do if they know that they’re very introverted, maybe were not particularly outspoken in their classes, and so they’re concerned that maybe a teacher doesn’t really remember much?

Joanne: Yeah, I mean, I would say just pick a or select a teacher that in a class that you’ve done well, because at the end of the day, It’s about how well you’ve done in the class and your academic ability. So maybe they don’t know you as in depth Lee, but they can definitely speak to your academic performance.

So I would go on that direction. Um, but for students who are still just getting involved in this process, it’s important to create relationships so that you don’t have this problem either.

Lydia: And, um, another question. So for a student that knows that they’re more introverted, what are some good ways that they can develop relationships with teachers, even if they know they’re not the type to maybe speak up that much in class?

Joanne: Yeah, I mean, I think about after school clubs and activities or volunteer. opportunities a teacher may provide. Nobody’s saying that you have to suck up, but I think some of those more organic experiences will provide you the room to build a relationship with a professor, professor or teacher.

Lydia: And would you say, is it more important for someone to ask a teacher that knows them really well, maybe a teacher that was both a coach and taught them in a class?

Or a teacher that taught them in the subject that they’re strongest in.

Joanne: Yeah, I mean, I think it’s better for somebody to speak to their character. Um, but I do also think there is merit for someone to speak to them who they know from an academic background. Circumstance that can speak to their academic abilities.

But my end thinking is the counselor is going to have to like bring this bus all back around. So truly the GANs counselor should have, should have the background information to bring, whether it’s somebody they know pretty well, that may not know academically or somebody who they’ve done well in their class and doesn’t know.

So I think, To me, the glue is kind of the counselor, and for your average student, the counselor is required to do a letter of recommendation.

Lydia: And what is a way that a student can kind of gauge whether or not a teacher could write a strong letter of recommendation for them without asking to just explicitly see that letter of recommendation?

Joanne: Yeah, of course. I mean, I think the counselor is a A better person to, like, bounce that idea off of instead of going in alone.

I don’t know that a young person would be able to truly know, but oftentimes the counselors and or teachers can say, or it’s been in my experience that a counselor, their rule. Or a teacher will say, I would love to write your letter of recommendation for you. Um, you know, or it’s a requirement in X, Y, Z class, and they know that they’re getting a good letter of recommendation.

So I hate to say that it’s kind of a feeling and a vibe, but the reality is, I think it is a feeling and a vibe.

Lydia: And this is kind of a question for if you end up with a teacher that maybe just kind of writes generic letters of a recommendation, it’s not any reflection on any specific student. They just. run out of time, and that ends up being what happens. Is that something that could negatively reflect on a student?

Joanne: Unfortunately, yes, I think it can. Um, but for me, in my experience, we rarely see negative letters of recommendation. And if we are, they’re like things that people have really tried to highlight. But the reality is, if they’re using a form letter, And you have those adjectives, they wouldn’t have written it down and applied your name to it.

I think the form letter people are more apt to pull out the negative people and say, this person is not any of these things, rather than just drop them into a form letter. I know I, I don’t want to admit that that’s like a thing, but I think it’s just sometimes the reality of it. Like you go to a big public high school or a big private high school and the counselor’s just.

You know, very, very overwhelmed and will put you into whatever box that they have, and it’s either good or it’s bad. I’m not against the form letter. I get it. I, you know, can empathize with them. But in my experience, it’s more often that the form, I’ll take the form letter better than a really specific letter knocking a student.

Lydia: And what would you recommend for a student? How involved should they be in helping their teacher? the letter of recommendation. Should they just let the teachers speak for themselves based on their experience? Or is it a good thing if a student tries to come with specific examples of here’s something that I did in your class or here’s something that I would like to talk about?

Is that too controlling?

Joanne: Yeah, I, um, I think it is pretty controlling. I don’t think your average person would like that, but so just make sure that they’re set up with the information that they might need. So your resume or CV or list of extra, whatever you decide to submit to them, um, make sure that it’s like a good package so that they can do it.

But outside of, you know, asking them and following up, I don’t know that there’s much more that they would need to do.

Lydia: Do you have any guidance for students that are undecided and maybe don’t know what it is that they want to study in college, and so they don’t have a specific direction that they need their teacher to kind of, Tie their recommendation back to.

Joanne: Yeah. I mean, I think then you’re just going on work ethics. So pick a teacher that you’ve done super, super well in their class and you’ve kicked booty and maybe it wasn’t your favorite class, but maybe you were one of the top students. Students. So honestly I love undecideds because they have more free range.

Like they have no allegiance to any, you know, type of class, whether it’s stem humanities, whether it’s music, whatever. Just pick somebody who you know, that loves you and has, you know, you had a, a ball in their class so that they can write about how you’ve just take to whatever it is, even if you don’t know what you’re going to do.

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Now, back to the Q& A.

Okay. So the next question is, how do letters of recommendation vary for different types of applications? For example, a letter of rec for college versus a letter of rec for a scholarship?

Joanne: I mean, I would say they could probably use both of them. Um, unless the scholarship is something like specific for research or like a program where you’re studying abroad and you may need to incorporate some kind of like statement about diversity and your ability to adapt to other locations.

But I think luckily for students, um, I believe they’re the same, right? Like your college should. Your college recommend recommendation letters should be the same as your scholarship, and they should all be, you know, 100 percent a plus number one kind of recommendations. We want to make sure that it’s the same quality of work being sent to an admissions committee as well as a scholarship committee, unless there’s, like, some kind of, I would say, background situation that needs to be explained.

Which would garner more money. The letters of recommendation truly don’t need to be that much the same.

Lydia: So do you have any advice for students who either have transferred schools while in high school and didn’t really get an opportunity to build a strong relationship with any staff member? Or students that maybe go to a school that has high teacher turnover. And so a lot of the teachers that they had previous years have left by the time they’re applying to college.

Joanne: So my recommendation for that is always for the student to write about it in the additional supplements, if there’s space for that, but most counselors who are experienced will state in the letter of recommendation that they We are this type of high school, and this is the kind of relationship I feel with the student.

So I don’t put that onus on the student. I put it more back on the school to call that out, you know, name it and put it in the information so that we’re not blindsided, right? So like, that may be a form letter school, but there’s a good form letter and there’s a bad form letter. So if the school says we are required to write a letter of recommendation, but there’s very high turnover, Here’s the letter that I have.

I, as a reader, would say, okay, I get it, right? So, like, they’re in the good category. They’re not in the bad category.

Lydia: And if a student decides not to waive their right to view the letter of recommendation, does that reflect negatively on their application?

Joanne: Oh, I don’t think so at all. I mean, I truly believe that the student should know where they stand with this person, so nothing should come as a surprise at all. It just shouldn’t.

Lydia: So if a student knows that their teacher wrote them a strong letter of recommendation, whether that’s because they read it themselves or because The teacher told them that they wrote a strong letter of recommendation, or they just have a gut feeling. How can they leverage a strong letter of rec if they are waitlisted for a school?

Joanne: Say that one more time.

Lydia: Oh, so like if a student is waitlisted, say they applied early decision or early action somewhere, is there a way that they can leverage a really strong letter of recommendation? And their appeal or, you know, their push to get accepted in the next round.

Joanne: Yeah, I mean, to me, the letter of recommendation that would be important is their senior year person.

So, who are they currently sitting with? Because typically, you know, you’re not asking a senior teacher unless you’ve had them at some point in the last 3 years. Um, I would say, Leverage would be finding a senior teacher who can talk about the person you are here, now, and what you’re going to do for that school.

Because the person that you are in your senior year is likely the person you’re going to be when you enter that school. Got

Lydia: it. And speaking of grade levels of teachers to ask, is there any grade level that you really should avoid? asking, like, should you avoid asking a teacher that you are having for the first time as a senior or a teacher that you had all the way back in freshman year?

Joanne: I mean, I think it truly just depends on the relationship, not the longevity of the relationship. If you’ve built a good relationship with the person, then they can write you the letter. If you don’t have a good relationship with the person, then they shouldn’t be writing you a letter. It doesn’t matter to me whether it’s now or, you know, four months ago.

You should be able to read whether or how you stand with that person.

Lydia: And this is a question that I know I’ve had students ask who, for whatever reason, maybe because of family, friends, or, you know, connections that they have, internships that they’ve done, maybe they have someone who has a esteemed title or some level of connections.

Is it ever better to Choose someone who has some sort of prestigious title. Maybe they’re like a mayor or a city counselor, for example, um, to write a letter of recommendation, even if they don’t have a super close relationship with you, but they’re willing to do it. Or should you always go for a teacher who has extensive experience with you?

Joanne: I would go with the person who knows you the most. I like, unless you’re applying to some kind of military academy, like the Air Force or Citadel, Annapolis, you don’t really need the mayor’s recommendation. It truly just comes from get an academic person, your counselor, call it a day.

Lydia: And when you see letters of recommendation from like, Politicians, government officials, does it ever sway you or, you know, feel more compelling than a letter of recommendation from a teacher?

Joanne: I hate to say this, but it doesn’t, like, unless it’s a required thing that you have to be recommended by the mayor, or unless the, let’s say, governor of New York is your uncle or aunt. That doesn’t really mean anything. I know that’s like terrible. And I know students like truly are going off those thought after things.

But like I said, unless you’re applying to a school where a recommendation from somebody like the mayor or governor or senators important, I don’t really need to see it unless you’ve personally interacted with them.

Lydia: Hey, well, I think those are all of our questions for tonight. So thank you so much showing in for a wonderful presentation. I know I always learn so much when you present and there are tons of questions that our students always have about letters and recommendation because it can be a little bit scary asking someone to give you their honest feedback about.

who you are and how you are as a student. So thank you for all the detail that you gave tonight in your presentation.

Joanne: You are welcome. And

Lydia: as a reminder, we um, have a number of other webinars that are planned for this month. We have another one actually scheduled for tomorrow and many other webinars planned for the month of December as well.

So hopefully we get to see you join us soon. I hope you have a good night. Thanks for joining us.

Joanne: Thanks. Bye everyone.