Building Your College List

Webinar Transcription

2024-06-03 – Building Your College List

Lonnie: Hello, everyone. My name is Lonnie Webb, and welcome to CollegeAdvisor’s webinar, “Building Your College List.” To orient everyone with the webinar timing, we are first going to begin with the presentation, and then we’ll have the opportunity to answer your questions in a live Q& A. You can also download our slides.

They are located in the handouts tab, and you can also begin submitting your questions by clicking on the Q& A tab. So with that, we are going to go ahead and introduce our panelists.

Stacey: Hi, everyone. I’m Stacey Tuttle. Um, I’m a former admissions officer for the Yale University School of Public Health. Yale is also my alma mater, so I went there for my undergrad.

Got lots of Yale in my background. I’m still there today, working there today. Um, and I’m really excited. This is one of, I say this all the time, this is one of my favorite topics, but this is really one of my favorite topics. And it’s a really great time of year to start talking about building your college list because a lot of you are In the middle of summer or very soon entering your summer period.

And that’s a great time for college exploration. So excited to talk to you all today.

Lonnie: Great. So speaking of, you know, summer and beginning to talk about your college exploration, we want, I mean, exploration, want to get a sense of what grade you are in. So let us know what grade you are in and it allows us to, you know, make sure we’re speaking directly to our live audience.

I’m going to give it a few seconds as I see they are loading in. Okay, Stacey, for our live audience, we have 60 percent are 11th grade students. Followed by that, we have 20 percent that are 10th grade students and 10 percent 9th grade.

Stacey: Amazing. That’s a nice distribution. Um, Lonnie, I apologize. Could you give me one moment?

I’m just moving to a place where my WiFi is just a little better. Give me one second.

Lonnie: Yes, go ahead. Absolutely. Not a problem. Okay, everyone. So thank you so much for submitting to our poll. Actually see that we have a 12th grade student that is in the audience as well. So regardless of what grade you are in, you’re going to be able to find information today that is going to be tailored towards you.

And And as we get ready to enter our summertime, building your college list is the perfect time to start or explore or refine in the summertime. So Stacey is going to be sharing some really great information with you all on how to build the best college list, which again, I would agree. Stacey is actually one of my most favorite parts, too, of the college application process.

Oh, yeah. So with that, Stacey, are you ready?

Stacey: Yes, I apologize. I could tell it was getting a little spotty and I just didn’t want to risk it before we started. So let’s dive in. Yes, go ahead. Thanks, Lani. So what is a college list and why is it important to create one? I always begin this conversation with my students.

With it’s a list of schools. You would be happy attending if admit right you need to really think to yourself What am I looking for in a college someplace that I will spend the next four years my life What are the priorities that I have in picking those schools? What is important to me? And that is different, right?

Then a list of the top schools in the nation or the world. This is a personal list of your top schools, not the top schools, right? There might be some overlap. You might want to apply to some of those top schools, those Ivy’s, those 20 top 20 schools, but you’re not necessarily applying to all of them because not all of them are going to be the right fit for you.

The right schools for you are going to be the schools that align with factors that are important to you. These are things that include, uh, major, location, size, Many factors that are going to be different from person to person, and therefore your list is not going to be like any other list. There again might be a little overlap because there are popular schools, schools that are really known for, um, certain areas of academics or being a really great, large university that you can have really great campus life.

And so people get really excited about some of these more prestigious or larger named schools, but don’t sleep on some of these other schools that Maybe they’re not as much in the press. Maybe they’re smaller. You never know until you really start exploring and you really start thinking about what you want.

Um, just because these schools are all in the media, um, and in the news doesn’t mean they’re the right fit for you. You need to do that soul searching and make sure that the match is one to one. And to that end, I would say avoid comparing your lists to other people’s. It’s really, really, really hard to do this, right?

Because you’re in the middle of applying to college. You have peers and friends who are going through the process. You have, potentially, People in your life who are giving their feedback and maybe what their goals are like or not necessarily what your goals are like But you’re feeling that pressure or maybe you’re feeling some sense of conformity You want to make sure that you know, you can go where your friends are going.

This isn’t necessarily the the right approach, right? You want to make sure you’re going where your academic and career goals can be appropriately achieved. That is really the end goal at the end of the day, right? When you can go to college, you want to get academic training that aligns with a future career that you’re hoping to pursue or careers or an academic area of study that you hope to continue pursuing, researching, whatever that looks like.

And so that should be priority number one. And of course, you want to do that someplace where. You’re getting manageable debt and you’re getting appropriate support and resources. Those are the questions you should be asking, not looking left and right and seeing what’s on their lists, right? And it’s important to create a list in order to keep yourself organized and focused going into the application season.

When you’re entering senior year, It can be pretty overwhelming, right? You’re entering your last year of high school, you have still academic and extracurricular obligations that you’re trying to fulfill, all the while applying to college, which feels like an overwhelming process as it is. So to have a college list all set up for yourself before you start senior year is to your benefit, because then you know, okay, I know, I’ve done my research, I know these schools are the right fit for me, and you’re not feeling maybe a sense of scrambling or worry that you’re not applying to all of the schools that you should be applying to.

You already did that research. You know, these are the right schools for you and you’re working on those applications now and The final list should be balanced. I will talk a little bit more about this in detail later in the presentation, but essentially, you want to have a balance between those top tier schools, right?

The ones that are prestigious, the Ivy League schools, and perhaps some schools that admit more students and maybe are more local, um, or more accessible to students. More students. And so we’ll talk a little bit about what that looks like in a few. So, I’m going to sound like a broken record throughout the presentation.

I will tell you that I think one of the most important factors, over and over and over, is the major and academic programs that a school has to offer when you’re considering where to begin with a school list. I always suggest to my students, look up the colleges that are known for the academic areas that you want to study in.

Right? And so you need to know that about yourself before going into the process. You need to understand, okay, what do I want to study? And that will help you start researching and figuring out which schools are ranked really high in certain areas or have really solid programs with research centers and robust faculty working in those areas.

That will lead you to the schools that can give you the support you need. To study the subjects you want to study so that you can go on and do the things that you want to do after you graduate. That’s why the majors and academic programs comes to the top of my list. Um, and I would say make sure that each school you’re applying to, each school on your list has at least two to three majors that you would actually be interested in studying.

Because if you get to that school and you were set on that one major that they had for you and you start That major and you determine that that major is actually not the right fit for you, which happens to a lot of students. You might need to pivot. You might need to find another major that would actually be of interest to you.

And so having a couple of options at each of the schools that you pick is going to be really important. Size is also a really important factor. There’s a very big difference between large, medium, and small schools out there. And I think the most glaring difference would be in terms of. This the size of classes and the size of advising groups and resources related to students, right?

So if you have a very large university You’re going to have a lot larger classes out there, a lot larger, um, advising groups. So you’ll be, you know, assigned to a faculty member and maybe they have 10 students assigned to them as advisees as opposed to two. You might also have to compete for some of the classes that are more popular because they might only have so many spots.

Whereas at a smaller institution, the classes might be less competitive, they might be smaller, more intimate atmosphere, um, different preferences from different people. Some people really like that larger City type feel for a campus and some people want that smaller feel and then some people want the in between some have no preference and that’s okay.

But size tends to be something that’s pretty important to people. Um, location. So this was actually important to me in my college search process. I really applied to most schools. That were within I would say 2 to 3 hours driving distance from home. I wanted to be close to my networks at home. And that was really important to me.

I also really liked being in the Northeast. I was really happy in the Northeast. So I, I didn’t really apply outside of that 2 to 3 hour drive radius. And so that was that was an important factor in my search. And that’s okay. Um, You might not want to apply to certain, uh, schools in certain states because they’re not favorable to, they’re not appealing to you for some reason.

You might be excluding certain schools because of climate in those areas. You might be excluding certain schools because location wise, they might not be near certain resources that would be conducive to your academic goals. Maybe you want to be closer to a city. And so location is important for that reason, because they have more research centers and hospitals or whatever that looks like.

Um, Financial aid. This tends to be one of the most important, the most important factor for a lot of people and applying to college next to the academic program piece. Um, and you want to have these conversations. You want to ask these questions. from the get go when you’re doing your research. Do the colleges that you’re looking at offer scholarships?

Do they offer loans? Do they, are they merit based aid, need based aid? Um, do they offer grants? Do they have honors programs that you can participate in? are accompanied with additional scholarships or benefits on the financial aid front. What are the criteria that you need to meet or requirements that you need to set forth in order to be eligible for financial aid?

These are all questions that can be answered during your research process. And financial aid is an important factor, right? You want to make sure that you are coming out of your program with, with manageable debt. Um, and that that debt you can manage through the career that you’re ultimately getting as a result of the academic program that you’ve chosen, right?

Feeling or sense of connection. This is really hard to describe outside of this. Um, those who have done college tours or started their college research will maybe understand what I mean. But the best way to describe it is the sense of belonging, feeling like you’re home, feeling like it’s the right place for you.

And I, I can’t describe it further outside of just you have to visit to know. And I know that it’s not always reasonable for everybody to visit colleges before they apply. I would encourage you to capitalize on online resources and virtual tours. They’re not necessarily exactly the same, but they’ll give you a sense.

And then if you get into the school and are seriously considering it, I highly encourage you to go to their admitted students day if you are able to do so before you make that decision. I can’t tell you how many times I visited colleges during my college research going on tours and I completely removed them from the list because I realized I didn’t actually like them.

This feeling that I got on their campus and then to the contrary, I would visit a school that wasn’t on my list at all, but maybe it was in the area and I fell in love with it and added it to the list. So, the college visits are actually really helpful in getting that feeling that sense of connection to the campus.

in order to solidify that decision for you. There’s a number of other factors, of course, you can consider. Everybody’s priorities are different. These are some top ones that I’ve experienced in advising students. So diversity and inclusion, equity and belonging tends to be very important, comes to the forefront.

Career resources, what are the career management centers like? Specifically in the career area of your interest, right? Um, some career offices are really robust when it comes to certain academic areas. versus others, depending on the institution. Research support for undergraduates. If you’re interested in research, not every institution is going to have strong research support for undergraduate students.

They may be stronger when it comes to graduate and professional student support. So definitely important to have that conversation if research is important to you. extracurricular offerings, maybe being involved in sports or musical theater, maybe those factors are important to you. And if you get to a college campus and they don’t have strong extracurriculars in those areas, that’s going to be really detrimental to your student life as an individual.

And you could have gone someplace else that had those resources. So it’s important to ask those questions. Um, study abroad opportunities. I remember it. Um, when I got into Yale, this was a huge selling point because everybody was at the time, uh, And I think still today, eligible for a summer abroad stipend, and I was able to study abroad, um, in my sophomore summer at little to no price on my part as a result of the stipend, so it really made study abroad accessible for me, um, and when I otherwise wouldn’t have been able to do it.

And there’s, of course, many others, but these are just some to consider. So when’s a good time to begin your school list? I think junior year is really a really great time. You can start earlier, but I think junior year is when it’s really on your mind, at the forefront of your mind, and you’re really at this point further along in your high school career, so you have a better sense of your own identity and what’s important to you.

So I would say the fall of your junior is a great time to start researching colleges and identifying the college experience that you want, given all of these factors that we’ve talked about, then the winter and spring, you can maybe even take time to visit colleges. If you have time, specifically ones that are in your area, because those are a little easier to do, um, and create that preliminary school list.

It doesn’t have to be a finalist at this point. It could be. Sometimes my students get overwhelmed. We might be working off of a list of 40 schools. Um, and I, you know, assure them we’re going to carve this down. We’re going to find a way to eliminate schools from the list. Um, but you have to start somewhere.

So create that preliminary list during the winter and into the spring. Now, as you enter your summer, you should continue visiting colleges and doing that research and continuing to carve down the list to a reasonable number. We’ll talk about what that looks like in a little bit. And while you’re visiting colleges, this is very important.

Take notes. Every, almost every college, if they have supplemental essay questions on their application, will have some version of why us? Why are you choosing my school? Why are you a good fit for our school? Why are we a good fit for you? And if you take those notes during your tours, And you maintain those notes, you are one step ahead because if you don’t maintain those notes, you’ll be scrambling and saying, Oh, I don’t, what was that thing they said?

I can’t remember what that resource was. If you have your notes, that’s one less step you have to take in doing research in order to write that, that supplemental essay. So the notes really do come in handy. And then, of course, they help you to fine tune your list as you continue to research and finalize the list at the end of junior summer, beginning of senior year.

So, August is typically when I suggest finalizing that list, so right before senior year begins, and that’s because that’s when a lot of the applications open. Many application deadlines fall anywhere between October and November. And January or February of the following year if they’re not rolling admissions.

So this gives you a solid Three to six months, depending on the school’s application deadline to get your applications in order now that you’ve settled on a college list, and it will help you keep organized as you go into senior year. A lot of my students get a little stressed about settling on a college list in August because they feel as though they’re, they potentially might have time to apply to more other schools.

That’s fine. If you have time towards the end of the cycle, deadlines haven’t passed, you’re able to add colleges to your list. Do so, but let’s stick to a core list so that you can meet those deadlines, those early deadlines, and keep the college application process manageable in the meantime. So it can, the list can continue to evolve into senior year, but I do think it’s beneficial to settle on a list come August.

What are some tips for helping to narrow down your list and identify those priorities? What is important to you and not the person to your left, not the person to your right. Like we talked about earlier, what is important to you? And I, I want to add to this too, it is important to add your family to this discussion.

You probably have a parent, parents, guardians in your life, who are really invested in this process. And they’re, They’re going through it alongside you, and they’re going to be involved in that decision making process, so definitely sit down and have those conversations with your family during this time.

And when you’re having those conversations, think about creating a clear list of deal breaker qualities. I call them deal breakers because essentially if a school doesn’t have this quality, that school needs to be removed from your list. It’s a deal breaker. For example, maybe you’ve discovered that you do not want a large school, right?

That’s That is a deal breaker. Remove all of the large schools from your list, right? That’s an obvious deal breaker. Maybe you don’t want to apply to colleges that aren’t strong in the area of chemistry or don’t have a chemistry major at all, because you want to major in chemistry. You want to be a chemist.

Remove colleges from your list that don’t have chemistry majors. Maybe you don’t want to Go to a school that doesn’t have strong extracurricular support in music. Remove those schools from your list. If that’s the case, I had, um, a lot of colleagues and of course, a lot of students where financial aid is major deal breaker for them.

I had one student this cycle who, um, had. two schools that she was admitted to. Um, one was in state, one was out of state, and they were equally strong in their academic areas, but one was a fourth of the price because it was in state versus the out of state school. And so that was a really important factor in her decision making process, right?

Um, if a school is not going to be able to offer you solid financial aid because For example, you’re an out of state student for that school and that’s going to be a deal breaker That might not be a good use of your time in applying to that institution, right? So engage in these conversations like I said with your family your counselors and your mentors These are people in your life who are also invested in the process They might have insight into the colleges that you’re applying to they might even suggest adding Colleges that didn’t occur to you before because they have that experience So really You know, talk to these trusted individuals in your life who have that investment in the decision making process that you’re going through right now with, of course, one word of caution when discussing your list with your peers comparison is the thief of joy.

So, you know, really be sure that you are not making decisions because this person is applying to the school. You’re going to remove it from the list because you don’t want to be in competition with them, or maybe they are applying to that school. So you want to apply to the school to. Really dig deep and ask yourself, all other people aside, do I want to go to this school?

And I will tell you too, a lot of, uh, that first example I gave where a student chooses to take a school off their list because they’re worried that another student’s applying and they’re more competitive, you don’t know what an institution is looking for in their incoming class. And the person who’s applying who you think is more competitive than you, Might not have the application that they’re looking for.

And so you should put your best foot forward. It’s The onus is on you as the student to do that research and make sure that you are a good match for the school, but also the school is a good match for you. And if you’re doing that research and you’re honoring that process, your application is going to be stronger as a result of that, as opposed to, I’m not going to apply to that school because that person’s applying.

No, you should be confident in the fact that you’re choosing to apply to that school because you feel you’re a good fit for it. And that school is a good fit for you. And that’s the reason why that school’s on your list, not because of other people. So keep an open mind through the process. Definitely have those conversations, but with caution, um, again, make sure each school has at least two majors or programs that you would be interested in pursuing.

If you went there, we’ve talked about that and do try to visit in person if possible, to get that feel for the school. I think that’s really helpful. in narrowing down your list. This is a really important question. How many schools should be on a student’s final list? I typically recommend 10 to 12 schools.

This, keeping in mind that a lot of applications will have limits as to the, the grand total number of schools that you can apply to. So you can’t go over a certain limit. As it is, and applications take time, they take a lot of time. These schools have additional requirements. It’s not just like one application and you’re done most of the time.

They usually have a set of supplemental essays that take time to write and to write well. And so in order to have solid applications to all Of the schools that you’re applying to, you want to honor that process by giving each of the schools the appropriate amount of time to write those essays in a way that you will put your best foot forward and ensure that you’re doing your best to ensure admission into each of those institutions.

If you’re applying. To so many schools that you’re not able to do justice to your own application to any one of those schools. That’s not, that’s not a good strategy, right? So applications do take time and they cost money. I could not apply to all the schools in the world, right? I, I was, I couldn’t.

Considering the financial cost of my applications as I was applying. And so I actually settled on, I think, around 10 schools when I applied. And I felt good about that. It actually ended up being a balanced list, which we’ll talk about in a moment. Ultimately, it’s a personal choice at the end of the day as to how many schools you apply to.

For some, it may be more or less, It might make sense to apply to more or less. Some students have more time, they’re very organized, they planned appropriately so that they can apply to many, many more schools. Or maybe they’re strategizing in such a way where they’re applying to schools that have less requirements.

But again, ask yourself, In applying to the school, if I got in, would I be happy and do I actually align with the school in terms of my priorities, my goals and the like? Um, if you’re applying to 30 schools, I don’t know if that’s a good use of time in terms of making decisions, 30 schools? How are you going to decide between 30 schools?

Um, it’s better to decide that on the forefront, narrow down your list, your top choices. And really stay organized and put your best foot forward with those applications most of the time. Now, in terms of a balance list, um, let’s dive into that a little, into a little more detail. So there’s three categories here.

Reaches, matches, or targets, and safeties or likelihoods. So reaches are schools that either have admissions rates of 25 percent or less, And your overall profile as a student is weaker than the average admitted student to that school. So, this means that if you looked at the data about the school, they’re admitting students at 25 percent or less, right?

Their admission rate is 25%. Or less, and you have an academic profile, let’s say GPA test score wise, that is weaker than the average admitted student. So I just want to reiterate that, um, the other scenario is that the admissions rate of the school is 15 percent or less. And in that case, this is a reach for any student because they’re very, very competitive institutions.

We’re talking those Ivy League, highly prestigious schools. And in those cases, the institutions are receiving such a high volume of highly qualified candidates that They can select a number of individuals from that applicant pool and have a very successful class, admitted class, but they can’t accept everyone, right?

It’s such a high volume, but they have to select a subset of that. And so it’s a very difficult, difficult job that admissions officers have in that scenario, right? Because they’re not necessarily Absolutely. denying you because you’re not, you wouldn’t be able to excel on their campus. That’s not the case at all.

Rather, they’re trying to create this community and fulfill other goals of the institution that you might not have any control over, like demographic data, um, departmental needs, other things that you, again, you don’t have any control over because it’s not your application that’s driving necessarily the factor that’s Um, meaning that you’re going to be admitted versus denied.

And those factors change from year to year from institution to institution. So all you can do in that scenario is put your best application forward. And if you happen to meet, if you’re competitive, right, you meet, you know, the, the standards of the school academically, they know you can succeed. But then you also, are a good fit for them in terms of their goals for the admitted class, that’s great, but that’s not the case for everyone.

You can be academically so excellent, extracurricularly so excellent, and still not get into these top schools because they have such a high volume of qualified candidates. And for that reason, it’s important to have schools in these other categories. The matches are targets or the safeties are likelies.

And schools that you would be happy attending, right? Um, so matches and targets are schools where their admissions rates are in the middle range 25 to 75 And your profile matches that of the average admitted student So if you look up the statistics around their average admitted student their GPA their test score, where are you falling?

Are you falling at about? what their admitted student GPA and test score looks like. That’s probably a good sign that you’re a good match for that institution. You will, will likely get into the school because you are a good match. It’s not guaranteed, but it’s pretty, it’s pretty, you’d be pretty confident in applying to those institutions and aiming to be admitted given their admissions rates and the match with your academic profile, your average profile of that admitted student and your profile.

Then their safeties or likelihoods. These are schools with admissions rates of 75 percent or more. So they’re admitting a large percentage of the volume of their applications and your profile exceeds that of the average admitted student to that school. So you’re very, very, very likely to get into these schools.

Now, the key in these two last categories, the matches, targets, safeties, likelies, is not, Oh, I’m going to add this just in case I don’t get into my reach. No, you need to treat your matches and targets and your safeties and likelies just as seriously as your reaches. Because again, you might not get into some of your reach schools, and that’s for reasons that you have no control over.

So it’s important that you’re researching your matches or targets, safeties or likelihoods, in terms of all of those factors that we talked about, and ensuring that your priorities are in alignment, and you would be happy going to any of these schools in any of the categories on your balance list. So again, in terms of reach target or likely, you can look up a lot of this information online there.

The admissions rates I was talking about are online and then the average applicant profile stats are typically. advertise for each of the school from the prior admission cycle. So let’s just say the last admission cycle, um, if we’re excluding 2024 would have been 2023. You can look up to see for many institutions what their average test scores for the admitted class was like and what the average GPA was like and compare it against your own.

Um, so if your GPA was falling below the average, maybe that school is more of a reach for you. If it’s falling at about their average, that school might be a good match for you. And if your GPA is falling above their average, that might be, um, either a match or a safety for you, depending on how far above that GPA you fall.

Now, average test scores, um, if you do submit a test score, if you’re falling below the average, that school might be a reach at the average, might be a match above the average. Again, it might be a match or a safety, depending on how far above you’re falling. Now, a lot of students will strategize with this data.

They’ll look to see, given the average test score data, is it for a test optional school, where you don’t necessarily have to submit your test score, if you’re falling below that average test score, a student might be decide not to submit their test score strategically because it does not add any value to their application in terms of boosting the confidence the admissions officer has in your academic ability.

Um, rather it might make sense to exclude your test score because you’re falling below the average and have the admissions officer weigh all the other components of your application more heavily, which might be stronger. Meanwhile, if you’re falling at the average or above the average, go ahead and submit that test score.

That being said, there’s a lot of schools that are moving away from test optional and back to test required. So I caution students moving into next application cycle, um, to ensure that they’re practicing for the test and they’re taking tests to prepare to potentially submit test scores at some of these institutions.

So when should a student’s school list be finalized? I mentioned earlier August before senior year and a lot of this has to do with when those deadlines fall for those applications. So, um, particularly so those early deadlines. So these are, these are considered early action or early decision deadlines and those deadlines fall much earlier than the regular or rolling decision deadlines.

Early action and early decision deadlines can be as early as October. Most of the time it’s It’s typically in November, but I have seen them in October. Early action is such that you’ll apply early and you’ll find out early. If you find out early, great! But that that decision is not binding as a result of you applying early and finding out early.

You simply get that information early and that’s fantastic, right? Um, some students get, don’t get admitted in the early action pool and will get deferred to the regular decision pool, excuse me. Early decision is very similar to early action, but the key difference is if you get into an early decision school when you apply early decision to that school, you must go if you are admitted.

So it’s a binding decision. versus early action. Both are associated with a slight increase in admission and admissions rates. Of course, admission is not guaranteed in any cycle, um, but it’s worth noting. And this is in contrast, right, to regular decision. Regular decision deadlines can fall anywhere, I would say, between December and March, some are even later.

Um, And these are just the regular decision application deadlines, right? If you miss those early deadlines or don’t aim for those early deadlines, that’s fine. But you typically must apply by latest. the regular decision deadline. And then you’ll typically find out those decisions later in the spring, sometime between February and April, depending on the institution.

And then some schools may be rolling in their decision making process. So rolling is essentially You apply early, and the earlier you apply, the earlier you find out a decision. It benefits you to apply earlier to a rolling decision school, because as time goes on, they do fill up spots. Um, and they do potentially allocate scholarships and things of that nature, so if you’re considering rolling schools, don’t feel like you can hold off on those forever.

Definitely prioritize those alongside your other institutions. So what factors should students take into account when taking schools off of their list? How many times am I going to say this? I’m so sorry. Um, the number one consideration, do they offer your academic programs or majors of interest? Right?

Your primary goal is to have gainful employment. In an academic area or professional area that you were hoping to to work in, or potentially go on to another academic program as a result of your undergraduate career that will help you to pursue PhD, MD, research, whatever that looks like. Um, and so if that institution on your list doesn’t meet that need, doesn’t give you the appropriate resources to achieve those goals.

that school’s not the one for you. I would also encourage you to consider factors that impact the value of your education. So is the institution allowing you to have career outcomes where you can manage your debt appropriately? And how much is that debt? Right? What is the ultimate value of the education you’re getting in terms of that output?

And then, as you go along, continue to evaluate colleges based on your priorities, the ones we talked about earlier. What are the factors that are most important to you and the deal breakers? If a school does not have one of those priority factors, would you still go? Resources for building a college list.

I love going through these options and exploring them with students. Number one here is the U. S. News and World Report rankings. So these are an annual set of rankings based on a set of metrics, um that the U. S. News and World Report uses to evaluate and compare different institutions. Metrics include things like, um, student faculty ratio, indebtedness of graduates, um, First year retention rates, graduation rates, peer evaluation between institutions, and that is a really great resource in terms of understanding where institutions fall, um, related to all of those factors.

Those are very important factors to students, and understanding the metrics helps you understand the rankings. And they also have really great tools to help compare institutions on their website. College websites, individual college websites are also really helpful in this regard. Explore them, go deep, dive deep, look at their student life section, look at their academic programs, look at their career resources and their alumni network.

What does that look like? What kind of alumni resources do they have for when you’re not even at the undergraduate institution anymore, right? You’re a graduate. What kind of support do they have for you? Um, and during that research, you’re going to come across in the academic section, hopefully their course catalogs or something of the like, and the course catalogs really, truly outlines their academic policies, but also the details of the academic programs, including their curriculum.

And their course offerings. And as you start reviewing those, you might get excited, right? If you start seeing potential majors that you would like to study, maybe you didn’t like there’s majors that didn’t even occur to you that you didn’t even know existed and you’re seeing these majors, you’re looking through the courses and thinking, oh, wow, I’d love to take that course or I’d love to do that.

Or maybe you’re looking through the course catalogs and not seeing any major that you’d like to study. Those things can help drive right your decision making process and the course catalog. I think is a really great place to start I might be a little biased because I’m responsible for setting the course catalog for my School and it’s something I really enjoy but it’s a great resource Campus tourism virtual tours.

We talked a lot about that and the value of understanding a college campus and the feel of a college campus information sessions and college fairs There’s a lot of opportunity where admissions officers, if you go on their admissions website, they should have a calendar or other information about info sessions in your area or fairs they might be attending so that you can learn more about that school from somebody who understands the institution.

Guidance counselors and academic mentors, I mentioned that these individuals might be really helpful in understanding, um, what might be a good fit for you and giving you recommendations, um, for colleges that you might be interested in. That might be worth considering, given your interests. And then current students and alumni.

These are people who have lived it, or who are currently living it, and can really give you that insider knowledge as to the pros and cons of an institution.

Alright, Lonnie, over to you for the Q& A.

Lonnie: Thank you, Stacey. Yes, we are now going to move into our questions and answers. So that now concludes the presentation portion. Stacey shared a great deal of information for you all. Just a reminder, if you’re like, I didn’t catch that last point, you’re still able to download the handouts.

by clicking on the handouts tab. And with that, we are going to move into our questions. So again, just a reminder that you can ask your questions clicking on the Q and a tab. I will read your question out loud and then I’ll paste it into the public chat for everyone to be able to see it. Okay, so moving into first question, what are common mistakes students make when selecting colleges?

and how can I avoid them? That is a great question.

Stacey: I think the number one mistake I see is students choosing colleges based on name brand or prestige. Um, it’s, and I caution, I guess I shouldn’t say caution, I would say maybe not phrasing it as a mistake, but maybe, um, a misstep, because an Ivy League or a name brand school might be the right fit for a particular student, um, but that shouldn’t be your first step.

It shouldn’t be the first go to. It should, be part of the process in your consideration, but not the first. Um, and then again, I would try to sit down and make that list of priorities for yourself because you might be blinded by one priority and then forget that you have other priorities such as financial aid or, um, maybe you didn’t even consider, um, institution size or extracurricular involvement when deciding on schools and then later you find out, oh, these were really important to me and I didn’t do that research.

So sit down and really think through it with your family. It’s a nice exercise to do, especially going into the summer months when you have time to think about it.

Lonnie: Great. Okay, next question is what are some strategies for deciding whether or not to apply to a more specific program that I’m interested in, but that I’m more interested, but that may be more selective versus general study.

So, perhaps, maybe, like, the engineering, the computer science, um, you know, what is the kind of some strategies doing that versus going general studies?

Stacey: That is a great question. So, I personally find it to be a more helpful strategy. It’s not the case for everybody, but I find it easier to strategize when it comes to applying to more specific types of programs or a specific area of study.

Um, and so it’s easier to kind of tailor your application narrative around a particular area of study, like I’m saying, maybe it’s STEM majors, or maybe you’re looking into the arts and humanities, you’re able to maybe articulate that much more easily through your extracurriculars, your essay, Essays and really spell out for the admissions officer.

I’m a good fit for this area because look at all these things I’ve done and I’m interested in and what what my goals are really aligned with that major or majors I find that strategy to be much easier I actually think the individuals who choose general studies or undecided or something of the like Have a much harder challenge because you’re essentially putting forth a scenario in your application where you’re saying I want to go on for Further study, but I don’t Know it precisely what my focus is going to be just yet.

And so you sort of have to create a different narrative where you’re you’re elaborating upon a scenario, uh, where you can benefit from college to help you focus further. Right, and it specifically needs to be this college because maybe they have three majors you’re interested in, but you’re not sure which yet.

And you end up almost settling in a category of majors when you do that because you are trying to articulate, I’m getting there, I’m almost there, but I need more time. And so I do find the former strategy to be a little easier. Again, not the case for everybody. Some people are truly undecided, and you can make a really great case for that in your application, but it is a little bit harder to strategize that way and build an application narrative that way.

Lonnie: Okay, next question. How do you balance athletic interest and academic interest in making the decision on what college to attend?

Stacey: Ooh, that’s, that’s a really good question. Um, because of course there are, for those who are athletes who will be athletes in college, there’s additional layers. To that recruitment process.

That’s actually not my area of expertise is the sports recruitment element, but what I will say is If that’s an important priority for you, that’s wonderful It’s it’s going to be a great part of your experience in college all four years You’re gonna form a really great bond with your team and a really strong connection to campus.

And so I understand why that’s a a top priority for students. And there’s also scholarships and other financial pieces connected to that. Um, and so it tied almost into financial aid in some ways. Um, but again, I do want to reemphasize your goal in going to college is to come out of college with academic training so that you can pursue the career that you want, right?

And so you want to make sure that wherever you end up. With that sports support Or that sports focus also allows you to build that academic focus that professional focus And so as long as you feel supported in both areas, I that should be an appropriate decision for you Um now it’s different for some people who might Want to be athletes after college.

And so that conversation is very different depending on the individual.

Lonnie: Okay. Uh, next question is how many schools are recommended to apply for early decision and what type of schools reach targets, safeties, et cetera.

Stacey: Yeah. Um, thank you for that question. So early decision again, is different from early action.

Early decision is a binding decision, right? So if you get into the school, you must go. Therefore, you can only apply to one school early decision. Technically, you could apply to more than that. But if you’ve gotten to more than one school early decision, you’ve essentially, like in some ways violated this academic contract, right?

Um, it’s not impossible to get out of an early decision decision. Um, it certainly happened, but it’s definitely frowned upon. And so you do want to apply to only one school early decision. That said, if you don’t get into that school early decision, there are a lot of schools now that have something called early decision two.

And so you can then apply to a different institution early decision two, if you don’t get into the early decision, right, that first round for the other school in question. This is different from early action. Early action, you can apply to as many schools. As you want to apply to early action, it’s not binding.

So you’re able to do that without any obligation on the tail end. Um, and then Lonnie, you had mentioned how you should decide between your reaches matches and targets. Yeah. Strategically it makes sense to leverage your early action, early decision, um, applications with reach schools because they are associated with a slight increase.

chance of admission. Um, but in reality, your early action, early decision schools, especially your early decision school, should be your top choice schools. And that might not be a reach school. It could be a match school for you. Um, so really sit down and think through which school, if I got No matter what I would go for me, I had, when I applied to Yale, it was early action, it wasn’t early decision.

So I didn’t have that binding pressure in applying early, but if it was early decision, I still would apply, have applied to Yale early decision, because I knew that no matter what, if I got into Yale, it would go. Um, and so that’s really the threshold that you need to consider.

Lonnie: Okay. So we’re going to take a short pause for me to share more about the work that we do here within CollegeAdvisor.

So, for those who are in the room, aren’t already working with us. We know how overwhelming the admission process can be. CollegeAdvisors team of over 300 former admission officers and admission experts are ready to help you and your family navigate it in the college admission process with one on one advising sessions.

We’ve already helped over 600 clients in their college journeys. After analyzing our 2021 through 2023 data, we found that CollegeAdvisor students are 3.6 more. times likely to get into Stanford University and 4.1 more likely to get into Vanderbilt University and 2.7 more likely to get into Harvard.

Increase your odds and take the next steps in your college admission journey by signing up for a free 45 to 60 minute strategy session with an admission session. Specialist on our team by using the QR code on your screen. During this meeting, you’ll receive a preliminary assessment of your academic profile, along with some initial recommendations at the end.

You’ll also learn more about our premium packages that we offer that will pair you with an expert who can support you in building your college list, adding your essay and much more. Okay, so I will leave this QR code on the screen. And you with our questions. So our next question is, what are some effective strategies for organizing and managing my college search?

Stacey: Oh, this is something actually didn’t touch upon. Um, create a spreadsheet. I am a spreadsheet lover. I think it’s so helpful is the number one tool I use to help my students manage their college search will make columns of all the things that they’re researching and what’s important to them links that they want to remember.

Notes that they’ve taken, average GPA, average ACT or SAT, um, major of choice, second major of choice, um, are they a reach? What is their admissions reach? Are they a target? Are they a safety? Um, that spreadsheet keeps them so organized. You can color code it. Love color coding. I think a spreadsheet would be the best way to stay organized.

Also, um, when I was looking at colleges, I kept a notebook. So when I went on my tours, I always had that notebook where I could take my own notes, write it in my really quickly. Nowadays, people can just use their cell phones, right? Um, I could have probably used my cell phone at the time, but that’s just not what people did.

But you could definitely use your notes on your phone. And now I think just really being thoughtful in terms of keeping lists and organized lists with your priorities in mind.

Lonnie: Okay, thank you. All right, so our next question is, you spoke about diversity, um, so this question’s related. How important is campus diversity and what should I look for to ensure an inclusive environment?

Stacey: Yeah, so I think it’s very important. Um, I personally found that to be very important. It was something important to me, actually, my whole academic life.

I felt so strongly about it that I purposely chose to go to a public school despite, you know, family pressure to do otherwise. And so I would ask those questions up front. I would ask what their diversity, um, equity, inclusion, and belonging values, are they part of the values and mission of the school?

You can learn a lot about a school given the mission and values they put forth. Um, do they have a dedicated office with staff? Who are and maybe student liaisons are ambassadors. Do they have student groups that focus on affinity identities? There are so many ways you can explore this on a campus. I think a lot of universities are doing, um, justice to that support and they’re building or they’re in the process of building more robust support.

But if it’s important to you, definitely ask the questions. And again, visiting campus. Can give you a lot of insight into what that feels like if you feel if you feel that sense of belonging if you meet under other students and you feel accepted and you feel warm, um, it’s that sense of connection that you can’t otherwise describe.

Um, but yeah, all of I think all of those things are very, very important.

Lonnie: Next question. How should I factor costs and financial aid into my college list building? Thank you.

Stacey: Yeah, I mean, this is an individual question, right? So everybody has different financial resources when it comes to, um, both applying and attending college.

And I also, something I have, I usually have this conversation a lot with my pre med students. You’re going to have a potentially additional cost after undergrad to consider a lot of individuals go on to further study right Lonnie I mean it happens all the time now The bachelor’s degree is not the terminal degree for many many people and so you do want to project forward, right?

You do want to project forward to the years to come when you might have additional costs And so for some of my students, it makes much more sense to apply to school schools where their tuition is going to be lower so that they can afford their master’s degree later or their MD later. And these are questions that you should have with financial aid officers at each of the schools.

Um, need based aid schools, they will be basing your financial aid packages entirely based on the need that you’re presenting in your FAFSA and other supported documentation. So, um, I know that for me, Yale was a need based institution. So I, I got a very generous financial aid package, um, as a result of that, and that made college affordable for me, um, that I, and it wasn’t the case at other institutions, other private institutions I attended.

I got great scholarships at those schools, but it was nothing compared to the new face aid package I received from Yale. That’s um, maybe some of the benefit to right applying to these Ivy League or the top 20 schools. They have a lot of financial aid resources and they can provide generous financial aid packages for the students who really need them.

Um, International students have another layer of consideration with that too. Uh, a lot of institutions don’t provide financial aid to international students, um, or they don’t provide significant financial aid to international students, and it’s some, it’s something that they need to weigh when they’re applying to college.

Um, and then another factor to consider is in state versus out of state. I alluded to this earlier. You might benefit from going to an in state school versus applying to out of state schools because out of state may be financially burdensome. They don’t provide a lot of financial aid to out of state students.

But again, every person is different. Uh, and so I, again, encourage organization, spreadsheet level organization if you need it. Um, and if you’re working with a CollegeAdvisor, we have a great financial aid team that can help counsel through this. You can talk to your guidance counselors, your mentors.

Don’t feel like you have to do it alone. And the directors of or, you know, offices of financial aid at these institutions should be able to help talk you through this as well.

Lonnie: Great. Thank you. Stacey. Our next question reads. How should I evaluate the academic programs at different colleges, especially if I’m an undecided if I’m undecided on my major?

Stacey: Yeah, so that’s, um, that’s a great question. So, if you remain undecided going into the application process. I still think it’s. It’s useful for you as an individual to do additional soul searching even though you’re undecided There needs to be some articulation of what are you interested in? What are you passionate about?

What do you like to study? It doesn’t mean you need to pick the major, right? Because that’s the whole reason that you’re applying undecided. You don’t know what major at this time in your application you want to choose. Um, but you should have some sense of your own. passions, interests, identity, and therefore those should align with some of the academic programs at these institutions.

So, I mentioned earlier, are you interested in STEM majors? Are you interested in engineering majors? Are you interested in music majors? Are you interested, um, in, The humanities, are you interested in the social sciences, but you can’t decide between psychology, sociology, anthropology, just don’t know which one yet.

You have to have some direction. You can’t, you know, apply and decide and say, I don’t know, I want to explore. To some degree, yes, that’s what you’re saying. I want to, I need more time to explore, but you need to have an articulated sense of self when you’re putting forth that application. Um, And so that those interests in that passion that you have should align with the academic programs that are available at the institutions you’re applying to, and maybe even align with their overall mission and values like institutions are known for being Um, top tier in certain areas of expertise and they might have an online presence or news, like really do your research and think about, okay, what’s important to me?

Um, and again, you don’t have to choose your major. I also should clarify that just because you don’t, just because you choose a major on your application actually doesn’t mean you have to stay in that major. I mentioned this earlier, you might have to pivot outta that major, realizing this wasn’t the right major for me.

strategically, it might make more sense to pick a major than to remain undecided because you can actually appear more focused that way and it will help you fine tune your list a little bit more.

Lonnie: Okay, well with that, that actually was our last question for our webinar. So thank you Stacey for sharing more with our audience on how to build your college list.

And for our audience, I just want to let you all know that we’re at the top of June. So with that, we do have a list of webinars that we’re going to be offering this month. So we really hope to see you again and an upcoming webinar. Thank you everyone again for your participation. And with that, our webinar is now coming to an end.

Stacey: Thank you. Thanks, everyone. Bye.