Navigating Test-Optional, Test-Required, and Test-Recommended Admissions

Webinar Transcription

2025-11-12-Navigating Test-Optional, Test-Required, and Test-Recommended Admissions

Anesha: [00:00:00] Hi everyone, and welcome to tonight’s webinar. My name is Anesha Grant. I am a senior advisor at CollegeAdvisor and I will be your moderator today. Today’s webinar is, “Navigating Test Optional, Test Required, and Test Recommended Admissions.” Before we get started, just to orient everyone with the webinar timing, we will take a quick poll to learn who’s in the room with us, share their presentation on today’s topic, and then open up the floor to respond to your questions on a live q and a.

Anesha: Before we dive in, I just wanna share a quick note about today’s topic. So this session is all about testing strategy, how to think about when, whether, and how to test as part of your overall college admissions plan. We’ll talk about trends and how test optional tests require policies affect your approach.

Anesha: But we will not be diving into specifics about individual colleges or exact score cutoffs since those can vary by school and change year by year. If you have any questions about a particular college’s testing policy or score ranges, we encourage you to check that school’s admissions website directly or take advantage of an opportunity we’ll talk [00:01:00] about later this evening to connect with the college advisor, uh, for personalized guidance.

Anesha: Um, but before we, now that I’ve said that and gotten that announcement out of the way on the sidebar, you can start submitting questions outta the q and a tab. Keeping that in mind, slides are under the handouts tab, and I will stop talking to hand it over to our lovely presenter, Dr. Aya Waller-Bey. Hey, aa, how are you doing?

Dr. Aya: Hi, Anesha. Thank you all so much. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening depending on where you are in the world. I am Dr. Aya Waller-Bey, and tonight I will be presenting as Anesha said about navigating the various testing policies that now exist in our wonderful college admissions ecosystem. Um, to orient everyone and say a little bit about me, I always like to begin with, I am a proud first generation college student.

Dr. Aya: Which means I was the first person in my family to graduate from a four year university. I attended Georgetown University in Washington DC Hoya Saxa, where I studied sociology. Upon graduating, I [00:02:00] became an admissions officer there, um, and helped to support our multicultural recruitment. Um, shortly after my tenure there, I went on across the pond to the University of Cambridge in England, where I earned my master’s in philosophy of Education as a recipient of the Gates Cambridge Scholarship.

Dr. Aya: And most recently I completed my PhD in sociology at the University of Michigan Go Blue, where I studied college admissions, specifically the college admissions essay. So I’ve been with college advisor now for four admission cycles and have over a decade, uh, of experience in college admissions. So I’m excited to be speaking with you all tonight and answering your questions.

Anesha: Okay. Uh, before we let you go, we’re just gonna do a quick little poll to ask folks what grade they are in. Um, if you’re a parent or a teacher, we welcome you. You can go ahead and select other. Um, and then we’ll see who all is in the room with us. I think we are expecting a pretty big group tonight, but we’ll see.

Anesha: Oh, yeah. All right. We have a little over 150 and [00:03:00] climbing folks with us. Welcome everybody. Thank you for joining right now. We’re, if you’re just joining, we’re doing a quick little poll. We would love for you to tell us what grade level you are in, um, as it helps orient us to the direction and goals of tonight’s session with the group.

Anesha: Um, okay. Okay. All right. Uh, I’ll go ahead and stop us. It looks like we have a lot of others, so parent and teachers, which makes sense of wanting to think about how to help your students strategize. Um, let’s see. Let’s see. Okay, we’ll go ahead and close our poll here. We have about 178 people with us. 129.

Anesha: Who took the poll? Yeah, the majority, 56% are others. So parents are teachers who I’m assuming are curious about how to just help their students navigate this. But then we have students from across ninth through 12th grade, the majority of students being in the 11th grade, which obviously is a pivotal year.

Anesha: All right, I’ll stop talking and hit it over to you, Aya, and be back a little bit later.

Dr. Aya: Fantastic. Alright, so time [00:04:00] to get started. So to begin, I want to address the obvious question. What do the terms test, optional test required, and test recommended? Mean, right. So you might have heard iterations of this, of these questions or phrases.

Dr. Aya: So just to make sure we’re on the same page, test optional essentially is a policy where students get the choice on whether to submit SAT or ACT scores and applications could be reviewed fully with or without them, right? Tests required, um, is when universities require students to submit standardized test scores to be considered for admissions.

Dr. Aya: So if they require them and you don’t submit them, your application is incomplete. Um, and, and therefore they, they won’t evaluate it as such. Right? And then you have tests recommended, whereas schools might suggest submitting scores if available, especially if they may strengthen the application. And they’re also a fourth option test blind, and that is when universities don’t require test scores at all.

Dr. Aya: You see that most commonly in the UCs. Right? So these are primarily the, [00:05:00] the, the testing policies that you might encounter during the admission cycles. So why did so many colleges move to test optional? I mean, I think this is in a really important, um, kind of question. I mean, there are some universities who’ve had kind of test optional or test blind policies again for decades now.

Dr. Aya: But we did see, um, particularly during, during COVID-19, the pandemic, there was just a huge disruption across the world, uh, where people couldn’t access testing sites, right? Um, either they, it was unsafe, right? Because of the virus. Um, things were being shifted. There was a lot of moving pieces and universities recognized that they could not fairly, um, you know, evaluate testing when students may not have access to test sites or the resources.

Dr. Aya: And also we were all experiencing a lot of loss during that time. So there was a huge wave, um, in thinking about, um. Test optional. And then also as a sociologist and a scholar who studies college admissions, [00:06:00] we know what the data says about testing. At least I know what the data says about testing, right?

Dr. Aya: There’s more research to show that GPA and coursework better predict college assess and test scores, right? So oftentimes people think of, uh, standardized tests being, uh, indicative of students’ kind of performance or achievement in college. Where data actually suggests that it is the rigor of the coursework, um, and the GPA, which indicates how students have performed over time.

Dr. Aya: That might be a better predictor of college success than test scores where you’re sitting at one specific moment for one specific, uh, at one specific time answering certain, set a set of questions, right, that may not always reflect students’ ability to perform well in college. And then also institutions sought to broaden access and di diversify applicant pools, right?

Dr. Aya: So when you also saw literature and, and a research about some perhaps biases or the ways that test, um, kind of, uh, test scores did not reflect, um, the aptitude [00:07:00] and the resources of students particularly, um, being a predictor for students who have higher incomes or parents with higher educational attainment might do better.

Dr. Aya: Institutions saw, like, how can we make sure that low income students, first generation college students, historically underrepresented students, might also have access to our institutions and might be able to demonstrate, um, their achievement, uh, and excellence in other ways beyond, again, test scores. So there a, again, a fair amount of reasons why we began to see so many moves to, uh, to test optional over the years.

Dr. Aya: And with that in mind, you know, people often, you know, inquire about, okay, I don’t send, I don’t submit test scores, so how are they gonna, you know, evaluate my, my, my application? Well, admissions officers focus on grades, right? As I mentioned in the previous slide. Course rigor and consistency across high school year.

Dr. Aya: So even without standardized testing, admissions officers are [00:08:00] able to evaluate how students have performed over time. Not with just the letter grades that you earned, but also the grades you earned in specific courses and understanding, given the context of your high school, how you performed amongst your peers.

Dr. Aya: There’s also so many other elements to the, uh, college application, right? You have essays, including that personal statement, the 650 word essay that students often talk about. Also, there’s other additional essays, those supplement essays as well. You have letters of recommendation from teachers, from counselors, from coaches for leaders in your community that some schools may require.

Dr. Aya: In addition, there are activities, the activities list, those extracurriculars. Um, your leadership, your community service, right? Those are also elements of the application that if students are not submitting test scores, the universities are thinking about those lar more largely, right? And then again, context.

Dr. Aya: Your school environment and opportunities, it’s also used to make sense of your achievement. Remember, it’s never apples to apples when comparing students from [00:09:00] one school versus another, right? So there’s a lot of contextual, um, factors taken into consideration. And this is particularly that with schools who have holistic admissions practices, right?

Dr. Aya: Again, the goal is to be holistic, take into consideration all these various components, all of these pieces to the puzzle. And for schools that have honest test, optional policies, you’re not penalized if your scores are missing.

Dr. Aya: In addition to the, this previous conversation we were just having, we often have folks wondering about academic rigor, right? So you often hear, at least I hear, and perhaps my colleagues hear this as well, that test scores are more accurate depictions of rigor, right? Because you’ll have a student who has all As, but the ACT score might be, you know, 25, right?

Dr. Aya: So for them they said, well, that, that is indicative of the, the academic rigor of the school and perhaps the student, right? But there’s a lot of [00:10:00] factors that go into consideration. So colleges are evaluating, um, and analyzing the difficulty of classes, right? So whether you’re taking AP courses, IB honors, dual enrollment, et cetera, you know, based on what your school has to offer, they’re also looking for patterns, as I mentioned of academic challenge.

Dr. Aya: Did the student push themselves over time and, and over time, meaning, you know, if you identified or say that you’re interested in math, are you taking a very, you know, competitive math curriculum over the year? So you start with the, the general, then you honors, and by the time you’re senior, you’re taking that ap, AP calculus class, right?

Dr. Aya: So just seeing how students challenge themselves again. Within the parameters of what their school has to offer. And then school profiles often explain what is available and how students compare to peers. We often hear from students who say, my, my school only had three AP classes. I took all three of them.

Dr. Aya: But there’s some schools who have 35 AP classes, or almost all the classes are AP after you’re a sophomore, right? [00:11:00] Remember, not apples, apples. Universities have that context. They’re looking at your school profiles. They’re also thinking about you in the context of your peers as well. And again, trends and grades often speak louder than a single test result.

Dr. Aya: I said this earlier, right? So if you start to see students grades fluctuate, um, there might be something more there, more to the story. That’s when other components of the application get to jump in, right? So again, admissions officers are evaluating, um, rigor, um, beyond, uh, again, that standardized test result, that single test result.

Dr. Aya: Now this is a very, very popular question that, again, I receive, I know my colleagues receive, when students are really trying to make determinations about when to submit a test score, right? When is it helpful and when does it, you know, when might it hurt a student? Right? So just a general rule, when scores fall above the schools publish mid 50% range for admitted [00:12:00] students.

Dr. Aya: So, um, so yeah, if the, when the score falls, falls below the schools, publish, uh, range for admitted students, let’s just say below, um, then that could potentially, um, oh, I’m sorry. When it falls above, that’s when it can, uh, help students. Also, if GPAs or grades are inconsistent, a strong test score can show academic readiness.

Dr. Aya: So, um, again, sometimes there might be some fluctuations and the academic profile, so then a student has a really strong test kind of showing, and then that could be a way to help. Student, right? When applying to some competitive programs, particularly in stem, uh, so things that are evaluating quantitative skills, engineering, computer science, uh, and particularly certain schools that put a lot of weight on that.

Dr. Aya: Um, you know, the MIT, the tech schools, et cetera, really submitting test scores can, you know, especially if they’re strong, can really help your, your, your application, your profile, right? And again, if you have strong prep preparation and [00:13:00] confidence and standardized testing, then submitting your test scores can certainly help you right in the application.

Dr. Aya: Now in thinking about when is it better to not submit a score again, the other question that we get, um, is when the score is below the school’s average for admitted students, right? Um, sometimes universities will publish this on their, on their various websites. You know, the common data sets some students might use or families might use.

Dr. Aya: Also, if it doesn’t reflect your academic strengths or potential shown elsewhere, right? So if, again, if you are really strong in the classroom, you have, you know, a near perfect GPA or, or near perfect, you know, performance in various classes, then some students say, I don’t think this test score or these scores truly reflect the academic depth and rigor and won’t really aid my profile, right?

Dr. Aya: Also, when you have a strong transcript essay, it’s an extracurricular record. As I mentioned earlier, these, there are other components that can [00:14:00] really help your application sing, right? So if, if the. Test scores are not doing that, then it may not be better to submit them. Right? Also, if you lacked, uh, fair access to testing or face barriers in preparation, it may not, you know, be the best.

Dr. Aya: Now you’ll see a few asterisks here because I often have to add these caveats again, as someone who studies equity, um, and higher education and college mission, this is something I think is really, really important for folks to know. So please remember that schools are evaluating students in context. So it’s not just the school you go to, it’s, it’s where you live.

Dr. Aya: It might be students from certain backgrounds, underrepresented, first generation college students, low income students, students with disabilities, students from rural communities. Even if your score is a little below the average. They may wanna still see those scores. I talk to my colleagues at selective universities across the country.

Dr. Aya: I’m a part of various coalitions, and they often talk about how underrepresented [00:15:00] students in particular first generation college students, low income students, often, um, don’t feel like they should send their test scores, even if they’re strong, given the context of their circumstances, because they’ll think they, they just fell right below those parameters and they may miss out on some really great opportunities.

Dr. Aya: So this is all contextual. There’s no one size fits all. This is important when thinking about how universities are thinking about diversity and maintaining, you know, inclusion, um, in their admitted students. So I just want to kind of keep that caveat in mind. And again, scores are considered in context.

Dr. Aya: So admissions officers will consider access to resources in their evaluations. So a 700 for one student, it may not, may look differently. Um. Then for another student, it’s all contextual. It’s all holistic. Thinking about the full picture of the applicant.

Dr. Aya: So, keeping this in mind, how might test optional policies then [00:16:00] work at highly selective schools versus less selective ones? Well, highly selective schools still see most applicants submit scores, but many are admitted without them. So just thinking about it, students are applying to highly selective schools overwhelmingly, right?

Dr. Aya: Based on what our research says, we’re likely to have more access to resources. Um, and then, you know, parental educational attainment might be higher. They might live in a wealthier school district or neighborhood, so they just have the resources. So therefore they’re more likely to have more test preparation and therefore have scores that they feel confident to, to submit.

Dr. Aya: Okay. So they’re more likely to. Submit their scores or high, highly selective schools are more likely to receive, um, those scores. But they do, again, many schools still emit students without them. Again, if they have a test optional policy, that means they are also a mini students without test scores. These schools often have other competitive metrics.

Dr. Aya: Again, grades, essays, they often have multiple supplement essays, right? Often multiple [00:17:00] essays that students are responding to recommendations. And even in some cases, alumni interviews, like my alma mater, Georgetown, they have an alumni interview. So there are other metrics that these selective universities may have.

Dr. Aya: Now, less selective schools may rely more on GPA or offer automatic emissions based on class rank, right? So the, the, the test optional policies will look very differently, uh, where submitting a test for those schools might mean you all automatically kind of get considered for a merit. You know, some, some, some scholarships, some internal scholarships that they might have where more selective universities don’t have merit aid, right?

Dr. Aya: So to, if you submit or submit is not an, you know, affecting the, the amount of financial aid you might receive. And again, policy language may sound similar, but the admissions culture differs widely. So always, when in doubt, go look on the website of the schools, you’re on your list. That’s where you should always check first.

Dr. Aya: It’s not [00:18:00] Facebook, it’s not chat GBT. You should go directly to the, the website of the various schools that you’re interested in to get a confirmation about their test. Optional policies. Okay? Very, very important to consider the source. Now, this is also another, um, like really popular question that we receive about whether or not, um, if you’re going to test optional, do you need to be stronger in other areas?

Dr. Aya: I would say yes. Right? Because the admissions officers have one less piece of information to use to evaluate you. So they’re gonna have to emphasize other elements, right? They’re gonna look more closely at the academic rigor, right? Uh, how did you do in the courses that you took, right? They’re gonna look at the writing, okay?

Dr. Aya: They’re gonna look more closely at those essays. They’re gonna look at your leadership and your engagement outside the classroom because they, they’re, again, trying to kind of take into consideration all [00:19:00] these other factors because they have less data. Now, admissions officers, again, they’re, they’re gonna seek evidence of intellectual curiosity and commitment, right?

Dr. Aya: They’re gonna look more closely about the, the type of, again, work you’ve done, the types of classes you’re doing, um, the leadership and just your sustained engagement over time. They’re gonna look at impact and activities and they, you know, students. Who stand out and you know, who started things, who are, who are creators, who are doers, who are community servants, you know, that stuff will really speak and could shine a little brighter.

Dr. Aya: Um, especially if you’re a test optional applicant who feels like the other components of their application are really strong. However, that is key. You know, admissions officers are looking at for strength across multiple areas and, and axes, right? There’s not a silver bullet. There’s not like you do this and then you automatically get in.

Dr. Aya: You know, as Anesha pointed out earlier, there’s no one size fits all. But there’s so many other components [00:20:00] that the admissions officers are now taking into consideration given test optional, uh, policies.

Dr. Aya: And I talked a little bit about this earlier, but what role does school context and available courses play? Again, admissions officers are evaluating achievement relative to opportunity. Again, if you attend a Title one school or school with fewer resources, the admissions officers have that context, right?

Dr. Aya: So they’re looking at that school profile, they’re looking at your grades and test scores and or the lack of test scores all in context, right? Again, if your school only has ib. That’s what they’ll evaluate. You know, they’re not looking, say, oh, this student only took IB versus ap, or this student didn’t take any dual enrollment courses, et cetera.

Dr. Aya: Right? Not every school district or school have the opportunities. And we also see that particularly in some of our urban, uh, school districts, and most often in our rural communities where students have fewer access to resources. So again, [00:21:00] universities have that context. Um, also a student who maximize what’s offered at their school stands out, right?

Dr. Aya: What is at your school? Are you maximizing those courses and classes? School profiles help explain, you know, what’s available. Again, a school profile. Um, most often our schools actually have them on their website, but they often are submitted along the, uh, the letters of recommendation, particularly by high school counselors.

Dr. Aya: Again, painting the picture for the admissions officers. This is also really important for schools. Say your school is new. Or you’re one of the first few students from your high school to apply to a particular school. That school profile helps to level set a bit. And again, equity focus review recognizes disparities in access to advanced coursework.

Dr. Aya: Again, um, you know, universities are thinking about, especially given the context of our current moment and what is allowed and permissible legally, they’re often thinking about how can we make sure we’re still, um, [00:22:00] finding, uh, you know, talented young people across the scope, across socioeconomic status, across, uh, cities and geographies and identities.

Dr. Aya: So there are my opinion, and from my, again, the colleagues that I know who work in college admissions, um, who are admissions officers, they are taking, you know, approaches to really think about students in context, recognize the various barriers that some students still face in our education, um, ecosystems, right?

Dr. Aya: And as kind of referenced earlier, um, this again is a question that comes up quite a bit as well in terms of, you know, are there majors or programs where test scores matter more? And from my experience, and I believe my colleagues would agree with this, but students major in, in stem, in particular in business fair quant, quantitative, um, types of programs.

Dr. Aya: They’re often, and also honors colleges and honors programs too often [00:23:00] value quantitative or analytical testing indicators. Now, that does not mean that you have to submit test scores. Um, if there’s a school test optional and you’re applying for a business program or something that this is not, again, nothing is black and white here.

Dr. Aya: Right? But we’re just saying overall, the, just based on what we know, that showing a strong performance and you know. And the math section on the SAT or, you know, taking, you know, high, the highest level math that you can, right? It’s gonna be really important for those schools who are looking, making sure that the students they emit can be successful once they matriculate.

Dr. Aya: So, making sure students have some type of foundational knowledge, um, I think they, they tend to look for, you know, again, these quantitative analytical testing indicators. Also, scholarship or merit-based a programs may still require scores. I’ve seen this as well. Also students applying [00:24:00] for, um, SMD. So some of those dual degree programs or joint programs, I often see you have to submit test scores for some of those programs as well.

Dr. Aya: For some of the reasons I mentioned earlier, like if you’re applying for A-B-S-M-D joint program, where you kinda get that, you know, six year, eight year, you know, you get a, a, you graduate with a undergraduate in a a, um, medical degree, um, they want to make sure they’re admitting students who will be successful.

Dr. Aya: And that’s often something I I want to remind families to think about. It is not, um, it’s, I I mean it’s exclusionary as a, as you know, the admissions process, people are included in excluded. So it is exclusionary and yet it’s also so universities can make sure that the students they do emit are able to succeed and thrive in the programs.

Dr. Aya: Right? They don’t wanna set any students up. For failure, right? So that’s also part of it as well. But again, as I mentioned, always check program [00:25:00] specific requirements separately from general admissions. Look on the websites, right? And I often tell families and students, I want you to feel empowered to call admissions offices.

Dr. Aya: I do this all the time on behalf of my students. If there’s some questions I don’t a hundred percent have the answers for, and it’s a very speci school specific question, I’ll just call the admissions officers. And maybe because I, you know, was an admissions officer. In my mind I’m just, I’m speaking to my colleagues and when I worked in admissions, people called all the time.

Dr. Aya: And if you were on duty, you, you asked, you know, you were, uh, you answered those, those calls and you know, or questions or families would come in and talk to us. So I just want folks to feel empowered, like it’s okay to call and say, Hey, I have a question about your test policy, or are there different testing standards for certain majors?

Dr. Aya: It’s okay to ask schools. Those specific questions as well. They may not have a robust answer or they may not give you the answer you want, but I just also encourage families and counselors and mentors to feel empowered to do that as well. [00:26:00] So for those who want to take the SAT or ACT, how can you prepare for that?

Dr. Aya: You know, how can students prepare if they plan to take those, score those tests, take a DI diagnostic test early to identify strengths and areas for growth? I mean, really. You can take that. I mean, I, I think some folks might take the test a little too early, right? Wanna make sure you’ve had at least algebra, right?

Dr. Aya: Algebra two. So there is some foundational knowledge, so you can actually know, literally know what the tests are asking. But, you know, as, or you know, your beginning of your, your junior year, you could take that test, right? Just to kind of get an idea. They’re free practice tests, college boards, website, ACT’s website, Khan Academy.

Dr. Aya: There’s so many free prep tools. Take a practice test, right? A lot of us, you know, take the PSAT in high school, right? So making sure you take those practice tests so you can kind of get a understanding about where you might fall. And then begin to focus on test taking strategies, right? The timing, the pacing, and [00:27:00] just the questions analysis.

Dr. Aya: If you know you already do really well in math and you took that practice test, or took a actual test and knocked that math section out of the park, but the, the, uh, the verbal was a little low, then think about strategically how you can prioritize. Studying and practicing the verbal section of, you know, of the test.

Dr. Aya: So you can make sure you look a little, kind of equally yoked, if you will. So be strategic there, and again, retake if possible. Um, I do not encourage students to just retake until oblivion. You know, I don’t think you should take the SAT or the a c. 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. I mean, I know so many students who are like, I gotta keep trying after a certain point there, there often is a marginal if, if any, improvement, but if you take the SAT or ACT three times, um, to, you know, and there’s improvement and in between you’re analyzing what went well, what you can improve on, or you remember like, oh, I actually need struggled in the [00:28:00] geometry area, what have you, then that’s really good.

Dr. Aya: Like if you are practicing in between the various tests, time you take the test, like are you taking, are you signing up for free classes or pay ACT or SAT prep classes? I always tell students, please, if you’re gonna continue to retake the test. There should be some type of practice happening in between them.

Dr. Aya: Otherwise, you’re not doing anything to flex that muscle, right? You’re not doing anything to make sure you’re, you’re learning or growing. So if you’re gonna rete, retake the test, right? Making sure there’s some practice happening in between that you’re analyzing your results and kind of prioritizing key areas, which the breakdowns, what, when they do give you the scores, the various kinda, uh, et s and college board, they do kind of give you an indication on what types of questions you got read or if this was geometry and et cetera.

Dr. Aya: So really take those things seriously. Uh, when thinking about planning to take or retake the SAT or a c.[00:29:00]

Dr. Aya: So final advice, um, before we dive into the q and a. Um, it’s important to know your numbers, right? So know your own personal numbers. I, I, I was just telling a friend, um, back in my day when I applied to college a hundred years ago, um, I remember going to the library and checking out those large books that listed all the colleges, universities.

Dr. Aya: I had my mom buy one for, for from borders. Rest in peace borders. And I remember knowing at the time I went to study international business, I believe, or in that in communications. I, I had a lot of interest and I literally had one of those, uh, large books that I had home. I wrote on printer paper. The school name, all the test requirements, the majors, and I wrote why I wanted to go to that school.

Dr. Aya: The city was located, like what I liked about the location, and I literally created my own binder. I did this for like 30 schools and I like put the, the paper in like sleeves and I like flipped through and read it like every day to [00:30:00] familiarize myself with the various schools and to make sure that there was true alignment of, as far as why I went to go to the schools.

Dr. Aya: But I knew the numbers. I knew what GPAI needed to have, I knew what test, um, kind of thresholds and intervals I needed to be competitive. And I, this is, you know, I did this by hand. This is before a lot of the resources that we have digitally now, but that was how, that was my own kind of knowing the numbers process.

Dr. Aya: And that was also part of my research too. Research the school’s policy. Don’t assume all test optional policies mean the same thing. Right. And, and, and this is important. Some schools. Again, it is test optional for everyone. Some schools it is, uh, it’s test optional. Um, for, you know, for a certain population, like for some schools, if you’re a GPA, it’s below a certain threshold.

Dr. Aya: They want you to submit test scores. So there’s, schools have different policies, even if they’re pegged as test optional. So again, please, please, please always verify their policy on their website and always focus [00:31:00] on what you control. We, we tell our students this all the time. Once you take the test, score the test, and you’ve taken it three times, you’re like, I’m not doing that again.

Dr. Aya: It’s in the past. It’s outta your control. Now you have to focus on those essays. The impact you have, if you’re still in classes and you’re applying out regular decision, focus on those grades, focus on those exams you’re taking because. There’s only so much you can do, right? You can focus on what you can control, right?

Dr. Aya: You can write the best essay or essays you’ve, you’ve ever written, right? Ask for guidance counselors, mentors, admissions reps can help you decide right? Admissions reps with a, to a certain extent, right? But. They’ll give you, you know, some, some guidance about that as far as what decision you should make.

Dr. Aya: And again, there’s no one size fits all. There’s so many caveats based on students, backgrounds, locations, identities, et cetera. So ask for guidance and remember, and I, I tell students all the time that a test score is just one piece, [00:32:00] one piece of the puzzle, not the whole picture. A test score does not define you.

Dr. Aya: It does not define your worth. It does not define who you will be 25 years from now. It does not say whether or not you’ll be that doctor you’ve always wanted to be or that accountant you’ve always wanted to be. So just remember, you know, a test that you take, your senior and junior high school does not determine your entire future.

Dr. Aya: It’s one piece of the puzzle, not the whole picture. So that’s something that I definitely want to leave, uh, leave you with in this conversation. Um, and I look forward to answering your questions.

Anesha: All right. Thank you so much, doctor Aya. That was a great ending. Note that it is only one piece of a larger pie. Um, oh, where did our slides go?

Anesha: Sorry. Okay, sorry. Wanted to put those back. Um, apologies. Uh, okay. We are gonna move over to the q and a section. Uh, um, the [00:33:00] way that it will work, I’ll read through the questions that you all have submitted in the q and a tab. I’ll share them in public so that others can see them and the read them aloud to give Aya a chance to give an answer.

Anesha: If your q and a tab is not letting you submit questions, check that you’ve logged in through the webinar custom link via email, um, and not through the webinar landing page. You might have to log out, log back in, in order to submit a question. And again, just a quick reminder before we start that. If you’re curious about specific score ranges or testing policies at particular colleges, those details can change year to year.

Anesha: So the best way for you to get them and the, the most accurate information is to check each school’s admissions website, or you can connect with a college advisor for personalized guidance. Okay. Um, my first question for you. Dr. Aya is, um, oh, just asking, I guess, about your insights into this trend. So some, someone asked, what is the main reason for colleges to go back to test required?

Anesha: Are they looking for stronger candidates? Um, you know, it seems like some schools are reconsidering test the optional policies. [00:34:00] Um, can you provide any insights into the trend of schools going back to requiring tests?

Dr. Aya: That’s a fantastic question, and I have a lot of strong opinions about that. Well, but I must, um, uh, I wanna say appropriate here.

Dr. Aya: Sure. So there, there’s a lot of things happening, um, there. It’s what. The colleges are saying, and, and it’s what is actually happening. So some universities are suggesting that they are, um, fewer students from underrepresented backgrounds are being accepted because fewer of those students are submitting their test scores, um, because they think their scores are too low, and therefore, um.

Dr. Aya: The universities are missing them in their evaluation processes. So they’re saying the data says that we have fewer, um, underrepresented students or minority students, [00:35:00] um, in our, you know, who we accepted this year. And we accepted fewer of them because fewer of them submitted their test scores. So in order to increase diversity, we are going back to requiring testing so all students can submit scores so we can see all of.

Dr. Aya: The underrepresented students. Um, so they don’t like opt out of sending test scores and consequently, um, denying themselves kind of more chances to be admitted. So that is one story that some universities, particularly the very selective ones, I’ve seen some, I read some of the press releases about that.

Dr. Aya: Um, secondly, there’s some folks who say those barriers that existed with COVID-19 no longer exist anymore. Mm-hmm. Um, so students have access to testing Skypes for the most part. There are some issues regionally in some cases, and now the,

the

Dr. Aya: digital tests are causing, um, problems, et cetera in some places.

Dr. Aya: But they’re like, those barriers don’t exist anymore. So now more people can take the test again. So we don’t have to, you know, make it test optional. [00:36:00] Um, and then I, I think, um, there is still a, uh, contingency that believes that standardized tests actually do, um, reflect aptitude and something meaningful. Um, in admissions processes.

Dr. Aya: Um, and I would say this test optional has also inflated published ranges incredibly. Um, so we have a lot of students who feel discouraged from submitting test scores because the students who are submitting are at the highest range. So it is, it is, uh, skewing, um, the, the, like, the accurate depiction of the types of students who would be admissible because the students who are submitting, um.

Dr. Aya: Our near perfect SAT/ACT scores. Right. So I think there’s a lot of variables at play. Those are just four. I will, you know, I can [00:37:00] share or we’ll share given time, but I think it’s a fantastic question and I think it’s something we all should be looking, uh, at closely and also interrogating. But that’s a sociologist in me.

Anesha: That’s fair. No, I appreciate the thoughtfulness around that and giving all the different types of rationale that might be out there. Obviously ’cause different institutions are gonna work differently. Um. Keeping that in mind, or thinking about, sorry, putting that aside. Thinking about the student population, uh, one question asked, what about homeschool students?

Anesha: How does any of this impact them?

Dr. Aya: That’s a great question. Um, and I’ll say this, uh, to be, to be honest, uh, selective schools in particular, homeschooling is d is difficult. There are different iterations of homeschooling, right? So you have students who are literally the mom is this homeschool, or the dad is the teacher.

Dr. Aya: Mm-hmm. And they have to develop their own system. And then now you have these homeschool communities where, um, the students can sign up for, like, to be on [00:38:00] the basketball team with other homeschool kids. So there’s now this community homeschool students. It’s difficult because it is hard. It’s even harder to under, to standardize, um, curriculum.

Dr. Aya: Mm-hmm. It is, there’s no, the school profile. Is comparing the student against whom, you know, it’s a one of one, right? Um, so test scores in those cases could be beneficial to signal that there was some structure that the students, uh, learned some core areas that there is some proficiency, because otherwise it is very, very, very, very difficult, very difficult for universities, partic particularly selective schools to have any indication of.

Dr. Aya: What a a for a homeschool kid taking, you know, biology looks like when there’s no, um, standardization or comparison. So I do think in those cases, standardized testing could be, could be helpful. [00:39:00]

Anesha: Okay, that’s fair. Um, we had an immediate follow up to the last question, but I’m gonna put it, I’m gonna put it on the back burner and loop back to it.

Anesha: Just to get to some clarity. A lot of questions have come through about ACT versus SAT. Oh, some folks have asked. Yeah. Should, should I take both? Some folks have asked what is the difference? Um, or how to, if you could give like a fundamental explanation of the difference. I difference, I won’t, I won’t ask you that, but I guess more so to the question of should a student take both the ACT and the SAT?

Dr. Aya: Sure. I mean, so the ACT, um, includes, well there, there’s some changes now. Um. At one point included science, uh, and it had more questions. Um, and the scores from one to 36 with the national average being 21. Um, so some students will, would take the ACT. I grew up in Michigan at, in, in, in Detroit, Michigan, and the state of Michigan [00:40:00] was an ACT state.

Dr. Aya: So regionally, there are differences, like some students in the southeast still take the ACT, um, the West Coast and the East Coast tend to be still very SAT oriented. Um, so there isn’t a difference in a sense of how universities evaluate them. Um, they, you know, they’re co they’re comparable, but at one point, um, well.

Dr. Aya: There’s back and forth, like the ac, the science section on the ACT, whether or not, uh, universities are not considering the science section. I don’t know why that is being removed. I actually have concerns about that, but that’s beside the point. So, yeah. So they are, um, students can take both. The SAT goes up to, uh, 1600, right?

Dr. Aya: 800, 800 is the max in each section. Um, it’s just, it’s a slightly slower pace. Does not have a science section as math, and then it’s verbal and like slash reasoning. Uh, and the SAT is now digital. Um, and the ACT has both a digital [00:41:00] and paper, um, version. So, I mean, the biggest difference is the score range is from, you know, 400 to 1600.

Dr. Aya: On an SAT. ACT is one to 36. Um, has a science section that schools may or may not be evaluating now. Um, some students. Take both to see how, which one they do better on. Again, if you’re living in a place, like at the time I lived in Michigan and we were ACT state, so all of my test prep was ACT. So I did much better on the ACT did I than I did on the SAT ’cause I just had less familiarity with it.

Dr. Aya: Um, so some students tend to like pick one and just take that. But if you feel like your score, if you just wanna give it a shot and say, Hey, maybe I may actually do better on the ACT, I don’t think it, it hurts you per se. So, um, those are like the biggest differences. Of course, you can kind of look online, um, and you will know what the culture of your state.

Dr. Aya: Because of what tests you hear most [00:42:00] about in your high school. Um, if it’s an SAT you’ll probably start hearing about SAT prep and SAT prep or p you know, if it’s ACT, um, it’ll be a slightly different kind of orientation, but it tends to be regional from my experience.

Anesha: No, I would agree with that. Um, I, one thing I’ll just add, or a piece of caveat that I’ll add to is I usually tell students, especially if they’re early on, to take a practice version of both.

Mm-hmm. And whatever

Anesha: you feel most comfortable with or wherever you score better, then, you know, especially separate from the regional kind of issues, if you’re in a place where you can take either or that either are kind of open to you take a practice test for both, whichever test feels better, dedicate your like, um, testing focus or your test prep to that particular exam would be my

Dr. Aya: general.

Dr. Aya: I agree. Yeah. I agree.

Anesha: Um, to that point, one question was, what is the ideal time in high school to take the SAT or the ACT for the first time?

Dr. Aya: Yeah, I mean, I think the rule of thumb often is like making sure students have algebra two, um, [00:43:00] so they can have some fundamental knowledge about the math on those tests.

Dr. Aya: So, um, some students would do it the summer between their sophomore and junior year. Uh, I feel like that most students from my experience take it the spring of their junior year. Um, but I think your junior year, whether it’s at the beginning, I think the beginning is a great way to get an indication of where, um, where you might be.

Dr. Aya: Keeping in mind that there are free practice tests, so you can, I think, you know, spring of your sophomore year, you could start taking practice tests just to familiarize yourself with the exam before you start spending money on paying for, or you can get a fee waiver paying for the actual sit down test.

Dr. Aya: But I think familiarizing yourself with the exams and sophomore year is a really great way to take some of those nerves out and just kind of understand the length and the style of the questions. But for a lot of students, it’s their junior year in high school when they start to sit down for those official tests, um, and give themself [00:44:00] enough time, especially if they’re interested in applying early action or early decision.

Dr. Aya: Or for some of those rolling admission schools, right? If they wanna start applying August 1st, students really wanna make sure that they’ve taken the test enough times to get the, the score they think, um, best reflects their academic profile and be able to have those scores in hand to submit when they make those early action, early decision application.

Dr. Aya: So I think junior year is a great time to sit down for the official test, but start taking those practice tests sophomore year.

Anesha: And also know that your school probably offers the PSAT, which is the practice SAT. Yes. So take that seriously as well. Be thoughtful about that exam. Um, as, uh, once you’re a junior, it does make you eligible for some scholarship opportunities.

Anesha: So, uh, keeping that in mind. Um, one question, kind of following up on frequency. Someone asked how many times is it reasonable to intake the SAT or the ACT before it becomes excessive? How mu how many, how often is too often?

Dr. Aya: It really depends on the student. I [00:45:00] think anything over four feels, um. Like a lot to me.

Dr. Aya: Um, and then it gets to a point where you don’t really see any incremental kind of progress. You kind of flat line. There’s such also a thing that’s called testing fatigue. Um, the process can just be a lot of very overwhelming for some students. I’ve seen students do really intense SAT prep over a summer, like gruelling prep and their scores don’t move at all.

Dr. Aya: Mm-hmm. Um, which is devastating for them and everyone involved, but it’s a reality. Um, so I think three times seems, you know, for the official test, again, you could, you could practice test yourself. I did a pro summer program and we, they practice, we gave, we took practice tests every weekend. Like that was the level of rigor that program had.

Dr. Aya: Um, but I took the official test. I think I took two acts and one SAT. Um, yeah, I think anything over five feels incredibly obsessive, but everyone has their own [00:46:00] rationale. Um, and then you run into the case of a Georgetown require, which requires you to submit all tests. Mm-hmm. All sittings. So every time you’ve taken a 16 times, now they’re asking you to, you know, take, submit it, which will be, you know, I think would be ridiculous, but, so just keep that in mind.

Dr. Aya: And as I said in during the presentation, please, if you’re going to repeat, like if you’re going to take the test multiple times, do yourself a service by making sure you’re doing some test prep in between that you’re analyzing your, what you did based on the score reports so you can have an improvement.

Dr. Aya: It makes no sense to repeatedly take tests every test cycle. But don’t do any study in between, you know, wanna take advantage of that time. So if you’re gonna keep retaking it, at least do some test prep, right? To make sure that there’s actually gonna be an improvement. So you can, you know, save your money, save your resources, and save your, your Saturday.

Dr. Aya: So

Anesha: yeah, if you’re taking in September. Take it again in [00:47:00] November. Give yourself October to study. Yeah. All right. We’re gonna take a quick little break just to do a little PSA about CollegeAdvisor. Um, so for those in the room who aren’t already breaking with us, we know how overwhelming the admissions process can be.

Anesha: CollegeAdvisor has a team of over 300 former admissions officers and admissions experts who are ready to help you and your family navigate the college process through one-on-one advising sessions and essay editing through our digital platform. CollegeAdvisor has already had 10,000 total lifetime clients and a 4.8 out of five rating on Trustpilot with over 750 reviews.

Anesha: After analyzing our 2023 through 2025 data, we found that clients working with CollegeAdvisor who have a strong academic and testing record are 2.6 times more likely to get into an Ivy League school around three times more likely to get into a top 20 college, and almost five times more likely to get into Johns Hopkins, UCLA and NYU when compared to the national acceptance rate.

Anesha: You can increase your odds and take the next step in your college admissions journey by signing [00:48:00] up for a free 60 minute strategy session with an admission specialist on our team by using the QR code on the screen. During that meeting, you’ll receive a preliminary assessment of your academic profile, along with some initial recommendations on what you can do to stand out.

Anesha: And by the end of it, you’ll also learn about our premium packages and get paired with an expert like Aya who can help, uh, support you in building your college list, editing your essays, and much more. We are here for the entire process. All right, we will leave that QR code up there. And again, if folks are seeking personalized guidance, we definitely encourage you to set up a session, um, to get some, um, answers to the questions you all have put out there.

Anesha: That might be a little bit too personal. Um, this might be a personal question, but I think it is generally applicable. Um, so I think I’m gonna say this. A parent, um, who asked How can I get my unmotivated student to study? Do you have any thoughts? Guidance?

Dr. Aya: Yeah, I mean, that’s a tough one. It it, it’s, it’s tough.

Dr. Aya: Um, students have just various levels of motivation and I think [00:49:00] particularly, I don’t know what stage the student is, if they specified, if they’re a senior or a junior or

Anesha: student, say what year? But she said she is currently working with a college coach, so I’m assuming probably 11th or 12th grade.

Dr. Aya: Oh yeah.

Dr. Aya: Probably 12th grade, honestly. But, you know, that’s an assumption. I’m just making, it’s difficult. I, I, I don’t have any, I wish I had like a magical answer to say, if you do these three things, the student will like, because we work with students here. Honestly, I, I’ve worked with students and half, you know, my entire kind of career who have various levels of motivation.

Dr. Aya: Some students, it’s their parents who are guiding them. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think sometimes students don’t kind of recognize the gravity of what’s happening. Um, and also young people. Feel a bit overwhelmed by the process. So they opt out. It’s like as, even as adults, when you feel so overwhelmed, you’re like, I just need to take a nap.

Dr. Aya: Mm-hmm. Like, you literally have really important things to do, [00:50:00] but it is like, I cannot process all of this. I’m gonna take a nap. Um, and I think some, you know, young people operate similarly where they get so overstimulated and because of social media and the comparison game, and they hear this on TikTok and their friends that they got in early to this school, they get overwhelmed and, and they shut down a bit.

Dr. Aya: So I think just having conversations about like, what the, the student’s goals are, um, not in life, but about this process. Yeah. Like,

yeah.

Dr. Aya: You know, what, what would you like to get out of this process? Or like what are you looking forward to about, you know, college, you know, what would, you know, what would be an ideal kind of.

Dr. Aya: Uh, application experience be for you? You know, just asking those questions where they can be introspective and reflective. And again, I know this is not like a magical pill, this is not something that might, you know, cure a student’s, you know, lack of motivation. But I think sometimes learning what motivates them, um, could [00:51:00] potentially help them as well.

Dr. Aya: And just kind of like, what is their vision? Like what do they think is holding them up in this process or mm-hmm. What, how, you know, what are their goals for the application process? You know, what are they, how are they envisioning like their life from five years from now? Um, I think that, and I think social pressure sometimes, like peer pressure could be both positive and negative.

Dr. Aya: So if you have, if you know your, your child’s friend, like friends and their parents. Talk to them and see if their children are experiencing that. Thinking about collectively how you all can kind of support them, you know, as a group. Those are just some things that come to mind. It, it is so difficult. I mean, we, Anesha could tell you we, we experience various levels of motivation as well.

Dr. Aya: Um, it, it could be a bit frustrating for all parties involved, but you just gotta keep a gentle push to the, you know, the finish line. Uh, ’cause sadly, time doesn’t wait for, for any of us. So that would be my, my response. I, I hope that’s helpful.

Anesha: Well, we’ll [00:52:00] see. Um, I guess let us know, um. One thing I appreciate about what you shared, you and I have both probably come from and worked with students who are first gen.

Anesha: And I think in some of those types of programs, there’s always a check-in about what your motivation is, like, what your why is, because it’s a lot of work, it’s a lot of energy, and there’s a lot of stuff you’re doing on your own. And I think for multi-generational college going, maybe that, that pause doesn’t happen to check in on your why, to check in on like, why is this meaningful?

Anesha: Because of just the ongoing assumption. So I really appreciate what you shared to just be like, why are you doing, why are you doing this? Why is it important to you? Where are you in this process? And that’ll help get motivations. But I I, I really love the rest of your answer. I just wanted to add that, um, I guess nuance to it from our, I think shared personal experience.

Anesha: Um, okay, the next question for you is related to some folks were asking questions when you were talking about rigor and how academic rigor kind of will stand in for SAT. Um, so someone asked, what if you only take a handful of honor and AP classes? But not in your core classes. So they, I guess they’ve taken their more [00:53:00] challenging courses in kind of history or psychology and not in like, English, math, or science.

Anesha: Does that balance out the rigor or should they be doing, employing a different strategy, I guess? Well,

Dr. Aya: thank you for that question. Well, it depends on what your academic interests are. I mean, if you, history is a, a core class, you know, um, elite math, science, you know, English, um, a social science, like, you know, those tend to be, uh, considered core classes.

Dr. Aya: And AP US history is a rigorous, I mean, every student I know who’ve taken it, they’re like, this is, it never ends, you know? So, um, I don’t wanna discount or discredit that. And also, I’m a social scientist, so, you know, I, I, I really believe that our social sciences, our englishs, et cetera, are equally valuable.

Dr. Aya: Mm-hmm. Um, but no, I mean, I, I think it, what is your academic goals? Like, are you applying to study. Bio or are you interested in psychology? Um, so I think that actually depends. [00:54:00] I do think, um, very selective schools though, do expect students to challenge themselves across disciplines, even if they, like, even though I wasn’t planning to study mathematics at Georgetown, I did still take AP Calculus.

Dr. Aya: Mm-hmm. In hindsight, I don’t know if I would’ve done that, frankly. But I passed and I, you know, I went to Georgetown and I have four degrees, but, you know, but selective schools are thinking, um, do like to see students who challenge themselves across, you know, all the classes, frankly. But I do think what your ultimate goal is matters.

Dr. Aya: I don’t know what type of schools you’re applying to, and I don’t know what your intended major, so it’s hard to give a definitive, definitive answer for your personal case. Um, but showing how showing that you are challenging yourself in some way is important. Um, and, but it. The definitive answer really depends on what your, what types of schools you’re applying to and also what your intended academic major is in undergrad.[00:55:00]

Anesha: Yeah, I appreciate that. Um, next question I have for you was, uh, okay, yeah, sorry. Uh, someone asked that, I think you spoke to this a little bit, but I’ll ask it again just on the same topic. If a student’s, um, school doesn’t offer a lot of AP or IB courses, how can they still demonstrate academic rigor?

Dr. Aya: Fantastic question. Well, you, you demonstrate it by taking whatever the most competitive classes that they have. So that might be, that might be honors courses, um, at your school. And that’s okay. You wanna do the best you can and the classes you have to offer. And I’ll say this extra thing because I do think there’s a, depending on where you live, dual enrollment is, I’m hearing a lot of conversation about that.

Dr. Aya: And dual enrollment is something you have to tread very carefully with. If your intention is to study at a very selective school, or even like a, a selective public university, I’ll say University of Michigan for an example, U of M um, does not consider like dual, dual enrollment kind of credit. Right. Uh, in the same [00:56:00] way, very selective universities actually do not consider dual enrollment even on par with AP or ib because it’s hard for them to, to know what a random community college class and business administration translates to for, you know, you know, some courses at, you know, McAllister College, I’m just naming a, a private liberal arts school.

Dr. Aya: Mm-hmm. So, um, so yeah, so also be before some students were like, I’m just gonna build up all these dual enrollment credits because I don’t have AP or honors, and it’s not to, it’s not a one-to-one with that either. So please, please, please, again, look at your, uh, the schools or your list to see if they even consider that, um, those credits.

Dr. Aya: So short answer, schools are evaluated in context of your school. If you only have honors classes, if you have no honor honors classes, if you only have standard classes, if you only have one AP class, take the most competitive, um, courses that your school has to offer, and your high school counselor and your [00:57:00] co school profile will like highlight that this is what the student had to offer or the school had to offer and the student took advantage of what was available.

Dr. Aya: That they will have that context and they will evaluate your application in that context.

Anesha: Okay. Um, a similar kind of comparative question. Uh, how do universities evaluate international language exams alongside, or instead of the SAT? So like the toefl,

Dr. Aya: do you know, instead of, yeah. I mean

Anesha: alongside, or instead of, so do they look at both or do they look at one?

Anesha: Do they not care about the toefl If you do well enough on the SAT.

Dr. Aya: Well, no, when I worked in, in, uh, at Georgetown, there was a cutoff with Toefl. Like it was actually a bit more kind of defined, right? With, with Toefl, I don’t work with a lot of international students currently. Um, but the Toefl was like, um, it wasn’t used as an admissions decision, like a [00:58:00] factor, like it was the same SAT/ACT scores, GPA extracurriculars.

Dr. Aya: It was like, um, it was just like a necessary thing, like if you were below a certain threshold, I think there was questions about kind of English proficiency and et cetera. So there were, there, there tend to be like an additional kind of stage of evaluation for international students with TOEFL where TOEFL was evaluated.

Dr. Aya: On, like, on its own kind of, um, based on like English proficiency and et cetera. But then you had the, the regular kind of, um, kind of evaluation of the SAT/ACT grades test scores and et cetera. So it was a part of it, but it was a slightly different caveating and I didn’t work with international students.

Dr. Aya: Um, so I’m less familiar with what that evaluation looks like right now in contemporary processes. But it was considered, but it wasn’t a one-to-one, it was an ACT in Toefl. Um, TOEFL was often used for like cutoffs, um, before the full evaluation in other ways.

Anesha: Okay, [00:59:00] okay. Yeah, it’s, yeah, I know it’s complicated and it depends on the office.

Anesha: Um, the admissions office, uh, okay. Just to circle back on the de question, I, I think we might have freaked out one person, but, um, just to say that like, you should take DE courses if they’re available to you, um, and you want to take them and the, they will help you look competitive. I think the caveat that I would offer is like, be prepared to lose those credits.

Anesha: Right. Um, if you’re taking the course to look competitive, because it is what you have access to, that’s great. Um, but don’t. Expect that all of those credits will carry over with you, so you kind of have to make that strategic,

yeah, I guess

Anesha: decision between DE versus AP or based on what’s available to you if you don’t have

Dr. Aya: Well,

Anesha: ap

Dr. Aya: Well, I do wanna, yeah, I will say AP and ib.

Dr. Aya: IB are. Preferred over dual enrollment for selective universities. So I do wanna, I think that’s important to, to recognize, but again, please visit the website of the schools because they will say in black and white whether or not they accept dual enrollment credits. So just have that information. [01:00:00] Um, so you’re not like trying to rack up all this credits to make college more affordable and then you realize you can’t use them.

Dr. Aya: So that’s what I wanted to, to highlight.

Anesha: That’s fair. Okay. All right. We will leave it there and we will leave it again with a caveat that the test is one piece of about 20 that you need to get together for a college application. It is important. We want you to be thoughtful about it and put your best energy towards it, but do not get stuck on it, um, because it is one of many.

Anesha: All right. But thank you Aya, so much for, uh, a great presentation. Thank you all for, um, joining and having questions. Thank you also to my colleague Anna, who is in the chat answering your questions, and I think we got to almost everybody today. Um, all right. So thank you. Take care. Have a good night. Uh, we hope to gain some tips on navigating the evolving standard standardized testing policies.

Anesha: Um, until next time, take care and have a good evening everybody.