Q&A with Former Admissions Officers

Webinar Transcription

2025-03-03 – Q&A with Former Admissions Officers

Anesha: Hi everybody and welcome to tonight’s webinar. My name is Anesha Grant. I’m a senior advisor at CollegeAdvisor and I will be your moderator today. Today’s session is a, “Q&A with Former Admissions Officers.” to get everyone oriented with the webinar timing, we’ll have presenters introduce themselves and tell us a bit about their background, and then we’ll open up to answer your questions in a lack q and a.

So today’s session is all q and a on the sidebar. You can start submitting your questions under the q and A tab. Um, but first let’s meet our presenters, Amber Bisnauth and Brandon Mack. Amber, can you get us started? Tell us a little bit about yourself, um, and your history in college admissions.

Amber: Absolutely.

Good evening and hello to everyone around the world who’s watching? My name’s Amber, as Anesha said, I’m the director of Admissions at CollegeAdvisor. I’m a former admissions officer at Stanford University. Um, and I’m excited to be here. I think I’m going on my fourth year here at CollegeAdvisor. So excited to answer your guys’ questions along with the amazing and highly, highly talented, qualified Brandon Mack.

I’ll pass it to him.

Brandon: Thank you for that, Amber. And good morning. Good afternoon, good evening everyone. Brandon Mack pronouns. He, him, his, uh, very proud, uh, admission officer here with CollegeAdvisor. This is my third cycle with CollegeAdvisor, but it is my 15th year in college admissions, most of it was at my alma mater Rice University started as an admission officer. Went all the way to being an Associate Director of Admission. So I got to chair admission committees and make those final decisions. So very happy to take all of your questions to really understand what is it like behind that wonderful curtain that is the admission office.

Anesha: Awesome. Thanks so much for that introduction. These are two of my favorite admissions officers at CollegeAdvisor, so I think we’ll have a good session today. But before we get started, we’re gonna go ahead and do a quick poll. So let us know what grade level you are in, and as we’re waiting for that to come in, I guess we can open up with a general question of like, is there any, Brady, you said this over while we were preparing.

Preparing. So I’ll say, I’ll just, I’ll just open up with it because I think it is good advice of, of what is general advice you would give to folks at this point in time in the admissions process.

Brandon: Sure. My biggest piece of advice as we go into what I like to call March madness, because March is when students get a lot of their decisions, is to manage your expectations.

The reason why I say this is that we want you to be aspirational, but we also want you to be realistic. So this is the reason for why college list development is so important because we want you to have choices amongst your choices. So if you’ve done this correctly and you have that good balance of reaches, targets and safeties, it’s a matter of then managing your expectations of having all these different choices.

But if you ended up overreaching or having a large amount of reaches, but only a few, um, safeties and targets, you have to manage your expectations with what comes with that. So let’s start that off right then and there.

Anesha: Awesome. Amber, what’s your general advice?

Amber: No, I know. I love that advice. And mines is really just tailing off of that is do your research so you can find your fit.

Uh, and I, something I was even thinking of before we started was, if you are applying to all eight Ivys and all the top 20 schools, or you’re trying to push yourself to 30 schools, the reality is each of those schools has a different personality. And even specifically within the Ivys, each of the, you’re, you’re not going to, it’s going to be a different vibe for lack of better terms.

It’s going to be a different atmosphere at each campus. So do your research, go on YouTube, watch student blogs. Go to the live student live information sessions or online information sessions. Just get a sense of what it’s like. If you’re at CollegeAdvisor, reach out to your advisor. We can connect you with someone who went to that school.

So you can talk with someone one-on-one and ask your questions. But, uh, definitely do your research so you can actually find your fit and you’ll save yourself. Some unnecessary insanity, um, come the essays right? You don’t wanna be writing 40, 50 essays when you don’t have to, and you wouldn’t even be happy at certain schools.

So that would be my advice. Generally speaking,

Anesha: great advice overall. Yes. Um, all right, we’ll go ahead and close our poll, just so you know. Um, so we have about 10% in the ninth grade, 20% in the 10th grade, 60%, which makes sense in the 11th grade. Yes. Um, so I, I’m glad 11th graders are showing up. Happy to see everybody, but I think this is the key time for juniors.

Um, 8% in the 12th grade, and 1%. I’m gonna assume our parents are other, um, or teachers. So happy to again, have folks in the room. Um, but again, we feel like probably this will be most timely for, uh, for 11th graders. So we’re gonna move on to our q and a, the way that it will work. Uh, you can go ahead and submit your question through the q and a tab.

I’ll read it aloud and paste it into the, into the public chat so that everyone can see it. And then give, um, Amber and Brandon an opportunity to respond. If you’re having any issues with submitting questions through the q and a. Just double check that you joined the webinar through the custom link in your email and not through the CollegeAdvisor webinar.

Landing page. You might have to log out. Log back in. Alright. Um, so we’re gonna get started with our first question. Um, and my first question to y’all is, if whoever wants to take it can go, what is an admissions officer?

Brandon: Okay, so I’m happy to take this one. Um, an admission officer is the person who is going to be reading and evaluating your application.

Now, admission officers are gonna do this from a variety of different perspectives. They’re going to read a variety of different areas. They’re gonna have a variety of different experiences, both professionally and personally, that they’re all bringing into the admission off into the, um, into the admission process.

The key thing you have to remember about this is also, we are also representatives of the university. So when we make our admission decisions, we’re also making our admission decisions on behalf of not only what do we want. But also with the mindset of what does the institution want? I. So one of the biggest things that really guides the admission process is something called institutional priorities.

These institutional priorities are communicated to us from our vice president of enrollment, our director of admission, whoever the head admission officer is. They’re given these by the president of the university, the board of trustees, and then we as admission officers are instructed to carry out those institutional priorities as we read and make your admission decisions.

But the bottom line of our job is we’re balancing a lot of different things. We’re balancing reading and evaluating your applications. We’re evaluating meeting you and recruiting you to come to our universities representing the university. And we are without a doubt, jacks of all trade and masters of many.

Amber: That was such a comprehensive answer. I’m not sure I have anything to fill in there. Actually. That was great. You went wide and deep. I’m happy to go deeper in other questions, but I really think that you covered everything there.

Anesha: All right. Yeah, don’t feel pressured if you feel like the other person answers it.

We can’t keep it pushing. We’re already getting a lot of questions, so, um, I think so, yeah, no, no pressure to answer for both of you to answer each question. Um, so the next question I’ll ask, and Amber, maybe you can start off with this, and then Brandon, if you have anything to add, let us know, but how important are extracurricular activities was the first question that we got?

Amber: Yes. I’d say that’s a, mm, I’d say that’s the direct answer is very, um, I also think that it’s a loaded question. I know there’s so many questions that you have when you ask that. Um, I’ll start with the most common questions that come under that subcategory. Um, so they’re very important. Um, whatever school you’re applying to, whether you’re applying directly to your major or you’re just asked what you’re interested in, but you’re not bound to that your applications are being viewed through that lens, as if, so let’s say, oh, I’m interested in computer science, but I, I’m not bound to it.

It’s still being viewed as though you are applying and you’re saying, Hey, when I come to this university, I’d like to study computer science. And so to Brandon’s earlier point, an institution is trying to balance their student, their new incoming class in a number of ways. One of those being academic pursuits.

So when it comes to extracurriculars, they’re looking to see, it’s kind of your place to walk your talk, one of your places there in essays. Uh, but you’re demonstrating your interest if you say, um, you want to, if you say, for example, you wanna study computer science, having activities that tell them you’re interested, and then the essays, you’re able to kind of illustrate your unique interests, what it is about you that got you interested and, and many other things that they ask are important.

But it’s, it’s kind of ground zero in the sense of, okay, you say you’re interested in computer science, or let’s say you’re interested in linguistics. Let me see how much you’ve pursued that interest and how serious you are about that, the likelihood that you would pursue that at our institution. Um, so I’d say that it’s, it’s very important, um, the way that I put it, academics are what open the door and activities are what will help you get through.

Um, so that’s, that’s how I’d answer that.

Brandon: The only because that was absolutely correct and absolutely wonderful. The only thing that I’m gonna add to this is the importance of context. And you may hear that a lot tonight. Yes,

Amber: yes.

Brandon: I hearing right now. When we evaluate you as admission officers, we do take context into consideration.

So what that means is what do you have access and opportunity to do? ’cause we understand in some environments, some schools and some students are gonna have access to a lot of extracurriculars. In other instances and in other environments, you’re not gonna have access to extracurriculars. So that’s the reason for why this is a very important part of this, is that context is very important.

Because often I’ve had students who are like, well, I don’t have awards. I don’t have this. I can’t be as competitive. And I’m like, well, wait a minute. Would you have had access to that award? And they’re like, no. We’re not gonna hold that against you because you literally don’t have the ability to be able to get that in the way that someone else does.

So when we look at extracurriculars, look at it once again with respect to your unique context.

Amber: Yeah. That’s a very good point. Absolutely.

Anesha: All right, thanks y’all. Uh, I’m trying to answer some questions in the chat as well as great.

Amber: Um,

Anesha: typing some as well as getting through. Um, so kind of building on top of that, you know, there are some comments in the, um, submitted questions through registration about passion projects and things like that.

Mm-hmm. As a part of, um, the extracurricular profile. So some, a student asks, a big part of college applications is this discussion around passion. What can the applicant do if they’re unsure about what they’re passionate about? And I think, you know, especially thinking for about some sophomores or even freshmen who are like, what, what, what does passion mean in the context of high school and even the college application?

So what are your thoughts about how a student can figure out what they’re passionate about or how to discover passion in ninth and 10th grade or even 11th grade?

Brandon: I am taking this one ’cause Yes, I have thoughts first and foremost. Freshman, sophomore year is all about exploration. Okay? This is where you are figuring it out.

This is where you need to try out different things. Because trust me, even as someone, I ain’t gonna say how old I am, we still figuring out our passions, even at this age, okay? So hence we don’t expect you to have it all lined out. But what we do expect to a certain extent is that you’ve at least tried some things out.

So that’s where the important part of this is, is, okay, you see that debate is over here. Did you go over there and try it out to figure out, do you like it or not? You think you wanna go into medicine? Okay. Are you trying out HOSA? Are you trying out, um, going and volunteering at a hospital? What do you have access to once again and are you trying it out?

And it’s through that kind of trial and error that you ultimately find out what your passion is. Now, when it comes to passion projects, let’s please emphasize that word passion, okay? And what we mean by that is you like doing it. What we mean by that is if you have free time, instead of going to Xbox, which, hey, video game fan, go up from Xbox.

But if you decide instead of going to that Xbox, I’m gonna go work on this. That’s a passion project because of the fact that you are donating and using your time because you love this subject so much. You love this project so much you feel that you can fix this issue, fix this problem so much that you’re gonna spend your free time on it.

That’s what makes it a passion project because literally you’re putting your own initiative and your own desire to do this into it. Doing it for the sake of doing it because you think it’s gonna look good on your college application is gonna come across just how it just sounded. We’re gonna know it’s not really a passion of yours.

Amber: Yeah. I think you, there are so many good points that Brandon just PO brought up and I specifically like that he brought up ninth and 10th grade explore because how are you going to some, some do know passions earlier on and that’s perfectly fine, but we know that you’re 16, 17, 18 years old applying, take the time when you’re 14, 15, 13.

To explore and figure out what does interest you. And then your 10th, 11th, 12th grade year, you can go deeper. So you can start off breath the think, start off breath, then find areas to go deep so that you have that demonstrated interest. You have a genuine passion that keeps you going, like Brandon said, instead of the Xbox, you’re choosing to go do this activity.

You’re choosing to make connections that nobody made for you. You’re going outside of the curriculum, but because it’s something that draws you to do that, because ultimately you’re the one who will be attending college. You’re the one who will be taking your college. You’re the one who will be pursuing what you’re pursuing from here on out.

And so this is a great opportunity for you to start taking the initiative with your interests. And, and I, I, again, love every point that Brandon hit and I would hammer that home.

Anesha: Awesome. We have a easy question. I feel like they’ll have follow ups after we answer it, but I’ll just ask it. Uh, one person asks, what college did we all go to?

Brandon: Oh sure. Uh, rice University for undergrad and then went to, uh, Texas a and m and the University of Houston for graduate degrees. So I’ve had this whole Texas education experience, which also helps me to talk about the concept of fit ’cause each one of those institutions are very different and they fit me at different points in my life.

Amber: Good. And I didn’t mention, I realized when Brandon mentioned that he worked at his alma mater first I did the same thing. So I am an alum from Stanford University. Did, thought I wanted to go to law school, worked some time out, realized I didn’t, and ended up back at the admissions office at Stanford University.

That’s the short story.

Brandon: Interestingly enough, I also thought I wanted to go to law school at one point.

Amber: Yes. There’s just something, I think there’s the advocacy component. Yes.

Anesha: Um, I don’t know if I’m included in the question, but I’ll just say that I went to Harvard. I went to Harvard undergrad, and then I went back and got a master’s in education at Harvard.

I never wanted to go to law school. Um, but Okay. I was very clear on that. I thought about it then I that, um, but, um, the lsat. Um, but okay, the next question is how do large schools that get over a hundred thousand plus applications, um, actually review them all and make a decision? So how do especially these large application schools actually get evaluated?

If anyone can speak to that.

Brandon: I know that the University of Texas is definitely asking themselves that question ’cause we did experience that this year.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Brandon: So when it comes to this, um, admission offices, they project how many applications they think they’re gonna get in a particular year, and sometimes you get an embarrassment of riches, which happens to a lot of institutions this year.

So what you usually end up doing is you have your dedicated admission staff, but then you also hire. Other experienced admission, former admission officers, admission application readers, and all of this team of admission professionals are reading and evaluating your applications to get through that workload of a hundred thousand um, applications.

So once again, it’s based off of projections and then you add additional people power. As you see the applications increase. But trust me when I say this, in general, most admission offices are going to read every single application at least once, but usually that’s not where it ends. Most of your applications are getting read multiple times by multiple people, even when there are over a hundred thousand applications, because like I said, we’re masters, but we’re also jack of all jacks of all trade at many things, including getting through those huge works workload.

Amber: Absolutely.

Anesha: So, sorry, go ahead. Go ahead.

Amber: No, I just wanted to provide context that Stanford usually receives between 50 and 60,000 applications. So that’s all Brandon on that question.

Anesha: Um, and I was just gonna say, I think a lot of times I hear in some of the, um, webinars that like folks are like, computers are reading, AI is reading the applications.

And I don’t think I’ve ever heard that be the case from an admission side. I’ve heard it be a rumor, um, that, that parents have heard. But I guess to confirm, like. At least one person is reading every single application.

Brandon: Yeah,

Anesha: I was gonna say,

Brandon: even for the institutions that I know of that have really huge application loads, it isn’t a um, computer that is making the admission decision.

Now granted, yes, there are institutions that do something called assured admission versus holistic admission. And that assured admission is when you know, okay, you have this SAT score, this GPA, this class rank, you automatically get admitted. But even for those type of institutions, they’re still doing a holistic review.

And holistic review requires a human ’cause. It’s a human process to do that. To do that work.

Amber: Absolutely. And even to that point, the reason Brandon’s saying right, there’s still a holistic review, is because there might be a shorted admission or guaranteed admission to the institution, not necessarily to the major.

So you do still want to apply yourself fully to that application.

Anesha: All right. We’ll go into some application components. Um, you know, similar to how important are our extracurriculars. Um, someone asked how important are, um, in-person college visits?

Brandon: So I would definitely say in-person, college visits are important for a variety of reasons.

Uh, one is for you to get a real feel of do you like this environment? You may like an environment because of the perceived prestige, but as Amber mentioned, every single one of these institutions is very, very different. And so going and physically being there gives you that sense once again of, do I like this institution?

Do I like this city? Do I like this environment? Mm-hmm. That then translates into how well you’re able to articulate. What you connect with with that institution in that why Stanford? Why Rice? Why Harvard? That type of statement. So that’s where it’s helpful. Another reason for why it’s helpful is for a wonderful thing called demonstrated interest.

There are institutions that do. Track demonstrated interest. There are institutions that tell you they don’t track demonstrated interest. They really do track demonstrated interest. And so therefore the perception is, is that if you’ve invested in physically visiting the campus, you’re more likely to yield and say yes to that offer of admission.

So therefore, that visit can actually be a great way of you supporting your own admission ’cause it shows that you’ve invested in coming to the campus to visit. Now, I wanna also keep this in mind. Context is very important. So if you live close to a college or university, your ability to be able to visit is very different than if you live outside of the state, outside of the country, things of that nature.

So another way for you to demonstrate this interest and visit is to do their virtual information sessions and virtual campus tours. So I highly recommend those as well.

Amber: Yes. And again, hitting on so many important points, um, with demonstrated interest too, specifically when you’re, if you’re not able to visit the campus or.

Even if you are, sometimes those campuses will visit you sometimes. So if your school does college visits or if the local area has college visits, also go to those and, and try to make genuine connections. Try to ask genuine questions you couldn’t find online because then yes, because then when you are, again, that can help to kind of build rapport.

Um, sometimes admissions officers are staffing those tables, so whether or not they officially track it, you can still leave a good impression. Um, and that’s important. So just take advantage of those multiple opportunities. Yes, there are sites online that can tell you whether or not a school tracks demonstrated interest from like heavily to lightly to not at all.

But to Brandon’s point, again, you don’t know what that might. Translate to, or, or what your connection looks like in the whole application process. So at, at any juncture, it’s just good to be able to make that connection. And then to his earlier point, it’s good to be there on campus if you can. I recommend going when classes are in session that can be challenging.

Uh, but just so you can kind of get a sense of what the classes are like if they’re open, you can, you can see students in action. You can see what student life is like. Um, if you can’t and you’re going during spring break or summer, perfectly fine, you still get the campus. There’s some summer classes.

Your spring break might be different than their spring break, so you still might get to see it. But, um, when possible, definitely encourage going in person. Uh, but there are several other ways to still get looped in those college tours or, um, the kind of college forums. Uh, well, I’m blanking on the term. Um, but those, yeah, where you can kind of go to a, a convention in a sense, and there’s all the boots.

Um, and then also if you can do online, uh, there’s a plethora of ways to kind of get pumped in.

Brandon: I believe you’re talking about college fairs.

Amber: Thank you. What in the world? Thank you. It’s like I just said the word and it’s just poof. Thank you Brandon.

Anesha: Um, okay, the next question is, again, how important is, how important are SAT scores And someone just the connected, uh, follow up of how do you weigh SAT scores and GPA in the admissions process?

Brandon: Amber, I’m gonna allow you to go first on

Amber: this. Okay. I was gonna actually take it first. I just didn’t wanna Awesome. Um, yes. So it’s a common question and I understand it and I, and I don’t get tired of hearing it because I do understand, right, that’s your in high school for four years, that’s the part you can control most consistently and for the longest amount of time.

Um, there are several factors when it comes to your transcripts. So the courses you’re taking all four years, that has most consistently. Significant weight that always has had significant weight. Whether a school is test optional or not, that’s going to be significant. You have the choice to choose how rigorous your course load is, and you’re also trying to ba balance rigor with success.

So you want to challenge yourself. You don’t wanna coast, but you also wanna show them that you can handle whatever that course load is. And so I encourage connecting with a guidance counselor or just a trusted older professional or somebody who knows you, who can kind of help you determine what you can handle.

Um, but that’s super important because colleges are educational institutions. They’re institutions of higher learning. They want to make sure that if you come into their institution, you’ll be able to handle the work. Um, and so. Number one, there’s the transcript. SAT/ACT. I know you guys have kind of seen a bit of a volatile environment in terms of their weight, their understanding, their value.

Um, you’re coming in at a time where I believe the tests the nu well, not, I believe the number of test optional schools is declining. Um, and tests are coming back. So I know for our students at CollegeAdvisor, we do encourage it’s better to have it and not need it than the other way around. Um, and it does seem like you’re going to need it or it’s going to be more advantageous for you, especially if you are aiming for those most, more selective institutions.

As that is the trend is incorporating tests back. Um, and I’m gonna point to an earlier point that I made is that academics, those are, think of that as what opens the door. It’s not necessarily what gets you through. So getting a 1600 and a 4.0 GPA does not guarantee your admission anywhere. That’s, just think of that as, okay, the door is open to you, you still gotta get through it.

Um, but it is a factor. And again, keep in mind the question that schools are trying to ask is, can they handle the work when they get here? Um, when they’re weighing both of those academic components? And Brandon, please, uh, also wanna hear your context and what you have to add here.

Brandon: So what I often tell students is this, the SAT and the ACT is who you are for one Saturday outta your life.

So I just want you to put that also in the context. This is the reason for why your transcript is so important. ’cause that gives us a sense of who you are as an academic over the course of your four years. But that SAT and the ACT can be an additional support in your candidacy for admission. So it’s just the truth in the fact that it is a factor and one that is not going away.

Okay. But at the same time, it doesn’t a hundred percent dictate all of your college options or all of your college choices. So that’s the reason for why you do it. You do your best. But keep in mind, one Saturday, four years,

Anesha: I feel like that should be a tattoo for admissions office. The SAT and ACT are one Saturday.

Um, but yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know if I would want that permanently, but it should be a sign somewhere in the background. Um, it’s, it’s a great, uh, it’s a great, I think, uh, piece to keep in mind. Um, okay. Staying on the, how important are, and I’m gonna do maybe two or three more. How important are, and then move on to the essay so you can stop submitting essay questions I’m gonna ask them.

Um, but, uh, so how important are, and I feel like one of you can take this, ’cause I think it really is subjective, but how important are multiple language credits, like Spanish, Hindi, French, et cetera, are those like weighed in some kind of way on the college application?

Brandon: So generally for most colleges and universities, you’re going to have to have two years of the same foreign language.

There are some institutions, and once again, this is where it’s important for you to do your research where they are gonna recommend three. I generally, um, tell students that we’re following what it is that the schools are asking for, which means that if they’re asking for two, we make sure that we have two.

If you like that language, go for it. But once again, this is where context is very important. If you’re someone who’s going for, um, humanities and social sciences, doing that additional foreign language can be a demonstration of strength and a demonstration of interest and connection to that particular subject because foreign language aligns nicely with that.

If you’re going in science, um, and engineering. While it’s not necessarily a, you know, one-to-one, you know, association, it’s still something that you could possibly bring into that subject because you’re like, I can be able to communicate these concepts, I can communicate these, um, uniquenesses of this subject through my language gifts.

So I always tell students, if you like the language, let’s keep studying it. But at the minimum we’re gonna do the amount of credits that are needed, um, to be competitive for admission to this institution.

Anesha: All right, Amber, I’ll asking you the next, um, how important are, how important is community service?

Amber: Yes. I’m glad that question was asked. I feel like Brandon might still have a little something to chime in, but, um, I would say you’re, Brandon said you’re gonna hear a lot of context. Um, I think you’re also gonna hear a lot of, do your research in the sense that several answers to these questions might vary depending on what institutions you’re interested in.

In terms of community service, from my perspective, I would say make sure it, it. I would say the best thing you can do is one, your school might require it. So make sure what your check, what your school requirements are. If you’re in NHS, check what your club requirements are or other co-op to make sure that you fulfill those requirements.

In terms of the admissions office, again, when we were looking at your activities, we’re looking to see demonstrated interest, um, in what it is that you state that you want to study, you want to pursue. So that’s our priority, I would say, to keep that in mind, um, when you’re considering community service.

So I. Personally from, from my perspective and in our admissions office, we never had a conversation of, oh, this student only had 76 service hours instead of 150. Like that, that was never a conversation. In case you are, um, in case the question of the conversation is kind of stressed about, like, I don’t know if this is enough, that, that the number is not gonna happen.

Nearly as much significance as the story you’re able to tell with any of your activities. So that’s what I would emphasize with that question.

Brandon: Yes, I do have it. Yes I do. I do it. I always tell students this, do you like doing community service? If you like it, do it. If you don’t like it, don’t do it.

Because once again, the purpose of community service is you wanna be in service to the community. So. This is something that you would just naturally do if you end up doing it for the sake of college admissions. It’s gonna come across as such because what do you ultimately have to do? You have got to explain what you did in your activity descriptions.

And trust me, your activity descriptions, if you were not that deeply involved, are gonna read like that because the enthusiasm is not gonna come across the impact of what you did, didn’t come across. And so I’m like, that 50 hours that you did, could you have devoted those 50 hours to something more fruitful?

Yeah. And you still would’ve came across the exact same way.

Amber: That’s, that is the key opportunity cost. What are you spending your time doing? You have limited hours. Focus on what it is that compels you. ’cause that’s what’s gonna compel us.

Anesha: Mm-hmm. Okay. Next question is, um, letters of recommendation. One, how important are they?

And then two, how many I.

Brandon: So letters of recommendation are very important because once again, this is how we’re getting to know you. So think of it this way. Your transcript is who you are as an academic. Your extracurricular are how you’re spending your time and what have you. Devoted your essays are your own unique perspective.

The recommendations are where we get a sense of who you are from someone else’s perspective. So this is where they are very important because once again, it becomes a check kind of, but it also becomes another perspective of you from someone else. So often if you are that impressive, if you are that impactful, your letters are gonna show that.

’cause they’re gonna talk about the impact you have had on the community, your deep love of this particular subject, the fact that you have won these impressive awards and how impressive they are. So yes, they’re very, they’re very important. Now, when it comes to letters recommendation, it is quality over quantity.

So you remember how you saw that? We read over a hundred thousand applications. One of the reasons why we’re able to get through those is if you abide by our rules. And if we say we only want one counselor and one teacher letter, that’s all you give. Some schools are gonna say, okay, you can give us three.

And usually that’ll be one counselor, two teacher letters. The maximum number that I ever recommend any student ever submit is four. So that’s one counselor, two teachers, and one additional for the teacher letters. Once again, go by the guidelines of that particular institution. ’cause some institutions like MIT are very clear in the fact that they want one from a science math teacher, one from a English social studies teacher.

Others are gonna be very clear in that they prefer it to be from teachers who are gonna reflect what it is that you wanna study. So if you’re once again going into like an engineering subject, you will wanna get a math or science based teacher. So once again, it is quality over quantity. I had a student submit 18 letters of recommendation.

While I was a admission officer. Yeah. I read all 18. Was I happy by the time I read all 18? No, because I didn’t learn anything new about the student. They were repeating the same thing over and over again. And generally if you submit that many, you’re trying to hide something and yes, they were.

Amber, anything to add

Amber: that, that I’ve never heard that? 18. The, we were, yeah. I think the most I had was seven and yeah. Very interesting context, but um, yeah, I would really say yes they are important. Um, in terms of the number, it’s going to depend on the school, but Brandon gave great recommendations in terms of within those guidelines, what’s a manageable number?

You really don’t need that much more than four because again, if you have your guidance counselor speaking two teachers and then someone like a mentor or coach, et cetera, if, if that’s allowed for that optional letter of recommendation, then you’ve got good perspective in the classroom and outside of the classroom.

Um, really other than that, my biggest piece of advice is just to make sure that they like you. I know that seems kind of like a given, um, but we can read through the lines and they might not be explicitly mean, but we, we, the way that I would read is by school group. Um, so I’d read, ’cause that’s the context we’d read in geographically and also specifically by school group.

So if we’ve gotten 20 students who applied from the same school and several got recommendations from Ms. Lee and one’s glowing from Ms. Lee, the other one’s like. They showed up to class.

Brandon: Beautiful gal answered

Amber: questions. Had they, they finished the class with an a I’m reading, I am reading between the lines or I am, I’m noticing that like they either weren’t that involved or they’re trying not to disparage the student.

That’s just the reality. You have humans reading the letters. Again, sometimes some schools will even go, some institutions will send, um, admissions officers to schools to give kind of letter writing workshops to counselors. Um, and we are encouraging them to like, Hey, yes, you can reference extracurriculars, but more so tell us what you know about the student and if something’s lacking there again, what, what do we have?

But to look at the context and and wonder why it’s more lackluster. So make sure the teacher, the mentor, whoever you choose, and the guidance counselor, they like you, you have some sort of established relationship with them, uh, because we can read between the lines.

Anesha: And just, uh, to finish up on letters of recommendation.

Someone asked, getting a letter of recommendation from a current teacher, so maybe 11th or 12th grade, versus someone who might have taught the student earlier, but has kept in touch with ’em, knows them over a period of time. Do you have preferences or are advice there?

Brandon: Once again, it’s gonna be, what is this person gonna talk about?

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Brandon: So, for example, if you are someone who really wants to go into a particular subject and you maybe haven’t been able to get to that subject until 11th and 12th grade, it’s gonna be understandable why you’re asking them that. Because you’re wanting to demonstrate that passionate understanding of that subject.

So therefore, that person is gonna be a better value add than someone who has known you for a long time. And all they’re really validating is that you’re a good person. We’re gonna see that you’re a good person from what your counselor says. So now what is this teacher really adding? Right? So that’s the thing that I always tell students to think about is okay.

I want as many different parts of me to be said in this entire application, what is this person gonna add that’s gonna be different than what this other person adds? So if there is a big market difference, then that’s who we’re asking. Versus this other person who’s just reinforcing and not really adding a whole lot.

But also duration of time does not equal, like.

Anesha: Alright,

Brandon: I’m

Anesha: gonna move us forward just because I know we have a lot of other questions, but the last kind of how important, um, question I’ll ask. Um, we’ve gotten variations on how important are aps, how important are dual enrollment aps versus dual enrollment. Is there a specific number of aps? So what are your thoughts on all of that, that whole kind of jumble of, of ideas and questions around aps, dual enrollment and competitiveness.

Amber: I know we both have thoughts and I’m gonna let Brandon take his sip and I’ll start. Um, so I do wanna address the number. No, I, no, I haven’t met an admissions officer where we’re like, where anyone has said, oh, if they don’t have 15 aps, we’re not in, and I’m giving an a extreme number for a reason. Um, if they don’t have 15 aps, then we just, they’re not competitive, we’re not looking at the number.

Um, we’re not, we are looking at how many you are taking, but not in the sense of there’s a quota or there’s a minimum that you have to meet. Again, we are looking at your application in context and to give a little bit of context to you in terms of how much of that we have. Uh, when we get your application from your guidance counselor, we’re also gonna receive something called a school profile or a school report that’s gonna tell us what’s available to you.

Um, so for example, um, West Virginia was one of my territories when I read for admissions at Stanford. California part of California was also part one of my territories. I’m not reading those applications the same way. They do not have the same resources. Uh, there was one school in West Virginia that had five aps totaled, and I saw the student take all five.

I’m taking that into, I, I see that they are pushing themselves within the context that they’re in, whereas a school in California had 23 aps. I am not expecting anyone to take 23 aps. But in terms of what’s reasonable within them, yes. If I see a student is, is challenging themselves and, and kind of has a, well either a, I wanna be careful how I say this.

Um, it’s not directly proportional. So I’m not saying like, oh, this student did five out of five, I expect this one to do 18 out of 18. No, I’m just expecting to see, okay. They challenged themselves, they took advantage. They didn’t only take, um, on level or maybe one or two honors. And I’m trying to stay away from numbers because I know, again, I wanna balance it with do what you can handle and still succeed in, um.

And so I, I’ll, I’ll kind of leave a pen there. I’m sure Brandon will have additional thoughts. Um, and then in terms of with dual enrollment, ap, IBN know, there’s a lot of questions in terms of which and what to do. We are gonna see what you have access to. So you don’t need to, if you don’t, if your school doesn’t have aps or either they’re kind of limited, we’re not expecting you to go out of your way to self-study and take the AP exam, you’re welcome to, but that’s not something that we’re necessarily expecting you to do.

You can take advantage of the curriculum available, um, at your disposal, and I think that’s where I’ll, I’ll pause it and pass it over to Brandon.

Brandon: So what I will offer as the following is, once again, context is extremely important because it is about what do you have access to now if you have an access to the full compliment of aps, I do believe that there is gonna be an expectation that you took advantage of it.

Now also, I’m gonna be honest, that there is a hierarchy when it comes to the ways in which we evaluate curriculum, but once again, it’s gonna be based off of what is offered to you. So in general, and Amber, please, if you have a different perspective,

Amber: you’re probably gonna say what? Yeah, AP

Brandon: IB is the highest.

Yes. The reason being is because it is standardized. We all know what’s involved in that curriculum. We all know the standards by which it takes for those classes to be done and taught. So hence, that’s the reason why they’re always gonna be considered higher compared to dual enrollment. Yep. Dual enrollment would be the next highest because once again, it is usually gonna be at a higher level than what is offered in your high school.

But there’s a very big variability between dual enrollment that is offered at a college or university versus dual enrollment that is offered at a community college. But still, that’s probably gonna be your next highest level. Honors is then underneath that and then on level or whatever is in your school.

So once again, it’s about what is offered to you in your school. I will always tell a student this, and this is for you, wonderful juniors going into your senior year. The only reason you should have an off period is because you have either a significant number of aps and you need that off period to balance because you have that large academic load or you need that off period because you’re doing an experiential experience for a very selective institution like the two that we, uh, have formally represented.

If you have an off period, and you could have challenged yourself during that period. You are judged negatively as a result of it. So that’s the reason for why this is a balancing act of balancing academic challenge with great grade performance, but also what do you have access to?

Anesha: Well said. I wanna try out having off period, because you have responsibilities at school as president of the student body had an off period.

Yes. Um, okay. I’m gonna take a quick little break just to give a PSA about CollegeAdvisor before we jump back into the questions so we know how overwhelming the admissions process can be for those in the room who aren’t currently working with us. CollegeAdvisor has a team of over 300 former admissions officers and has been admission experts who are.

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We’ll go ahead and leave that QR code up on the screen and get back to our questions. And the next question for y’all, I promise we would talk about some essays. So, um, the first question I will say, we’ll see how you answer it. Um, what kinds of essays the admissions officers tend to favor is the way the question is worded.

Amber: Hmm. 10 inches. Inches. Yeah, go ahead. I saw you.

Brandon: In my opinion, we tend to favor the essays that we don’t see coming. And what I mean by that is this, you have to think about, um, how we usually review your applications. So typically, the way, at least I’ve always reviewed it, the transcript is the first thing.

So I know I’m gonna see that information. I know I’m gonna see what you’re academically interested in. I know I’m gonna see your extracurriculars and all of that. So I have all that information about you. Before I even get to that first essay, I tended to always favor am I learning something new? So if I get an essay where, oh, I’m learning more about what you’ve done in an extracurricular, it’s like, I’ve already got that information.

Did I learn a different side of you? If I get to that essay and it’s like, oh. I had no idea that you had this love of vinyl records, because once again, where were you gonna put that? I favor that because, oh, I’ve learned something new about this student and it’s additive to all these other things. So to me, that would be the thing that I would always say that admission officers, in my experience, always favored, is when we would get to an essay where I’ve learned something new about you that I wasn’t necessarily expecting, because once again, I already had all this information.

If I get to an essay where you’re reiterating your love of medicine to a certain extent, I’m still gonna read it. It’s not like I’m gonna just say, oh, that’s bad. We’re done. It’s just a matter of, well, what have I learned? Because I know you can do the work. I know you’re passionate about medicine. I don’t know you.

Hmm. This is where I want to know, well, who are you outside of all this? Because I got thousands upon thousands of students who can do the work. Yeah. What I don’t have is thousands upon thousands of students who are gonna share themselves. And for an institution that very much values you being in a community where they want you to be able to share yourself so they can learn from you.

If you demonstrate that,

Amber: yeah.

Brandon: That demonstrates why we want you there. Thank you for coming my TED Talk.

Amber: I absolutely agree with that. Every point that I make, I think that’s kind of the foundation of it. Am I learning something new? I what I notice is when students are self-aware, that can come through very well and very strongly in the essays.

And what I mean by that again, right? Like yes, we are learning something new from you. From you. So if we see your activities. It’s possible that 100, it’s probable that 150 characters is not sufficient to explain the impact of something that really matters to you. So yes, we want to understand that, especially if something kind of stands out or it’s not normal, we’d love to see kind of context of why do you do that or how does that fit in?

Um, but we’d also like to see examples of just genuine connections made that I wouldn’t make on my own. Right. So if, for example, let’s take the vinyl records. If somehow you’re connecting vinyl records to DNAI, I’m not saying I’ve seen that. I’m just saying like, you’re interested in pre-med and you’re making these connections, and I’m not saying that are forced.

I’m really not. If there was a genuine connection that’s expressing you, Brandon, let’s say Brandon’s applying, right? Like and I am, I’m learning like, wow. I learn more about the way they think I can see what’s, what they’re passionate about. And, and if that’s genuine, letters of recommendation are only gonna confirm some aspect of that, of your, of your genuine interest, something that spills into the classroom and out of the classroom.

Your application’s like a mosaic. It’s gonna fit together though. Each piece is gonna look very different, but it will fit together. It will make sense. Um, so I definitely say keep in, keep that in mind and keep in mind, leverage your common App essay in relation to your supplemental essays. Keep in mind, I, I’d say even now, juniors, as you’re starting to build your college list and you’re getting more comfortable with the schools you’re interested in, take a peek at their essays.

Understand, look at what those, those schools are asking you in reference to the options you have for the Common app essay, and leverage the information, what you share where. Uh, because again, we don’t wanna see a repeat of your common app essay. We have that, um, for schools that have that supplemental essay.

So be aware, kind of prepare, um, in advance for different kinds of topics. You can dive into common app versus supplemental and leverage. Maximize all that space by sharing as much of yourself as you can genuinely without forcing it.

Anesha: Thanks for anticipating my next question, which was about the common app essay in re relation to the supplemental.

So, um, make sure for getting ahead of that. Um, but I, I wanna also add, I think just to what you both have shared, I think sometimes, and I see this a lot with pre-med students in particularly, they feel like they need to prove why they are ready to be a doctor. And that is not what the essay is for. That’s true.

And every essay ends up repeating the same notion of so true of preparedness. And it’s sort of like, I love that you have shared. You know, we wanna see something new in almost each essay that you can provide. And it’s not, we believe you that you wanna be a doctor, we believe. Um, you know, and so it’s only the first time that you really have to get that across.

Um, and don’t, you don’t have to kind of prove your BAP is academically over and over again. Um, I, I guess the next essay question that I’ll ask, um, someone was asking about, oh, I guess you kind of answered it, but I’ll, I’ll ask it. What are some creative ways to write an essay that engages with admissions officers?

Do you have thoughts on writing? Someone ask, writing an inspiring essay.

Amber: Uh. Okay. I, I’ll start. I, I feel like Bri. Okay. Um, this is not a direct, like you’re gonna write this essay right now. This is Okay. You’re preparing to write the essay. I encourage my students to journal, and I know that seems a little bit roundabout, but I.

Remember I mentioned the students that are self-aware and that come, that comes through in the writing. Um, they’re aware of what motivates them, what inspires them. They’ve made connections that maybe they didn’t initially, but they’ve taken the time to reflect and can now see like they’re being intentional about their application.

Um, I’d say to journal to, to, and do like free writes, like brain dumps. Like just get used to writing and not overcorrecting yourself. Um, I think that, that you’d be so surprised how much material and content I can find with my students who were just talking back and forth, like, you did this. Like, you didn’t tell me you fell up and jumped the spear.

Oh, well, like you broke three bones. Or I actually have a student who broke seven bones. But, um, like, it’s just like in, in the span of several years, no, a lot, a lot has happened, but there’s so many connections that you can find just by, if you’re working by yourself, um, just writing it out and finding the connections.

If you have an advisor, again, it’s so fun to be able to talk back and forth and, and find connections together. So I definitely say, um, I. Journal free write if you have a friend, or again, a trusted advisor, kind of go through these things with them because they might also be able to help you find connections you might not find on your own.

Um, so those are the two pieces that I would say can kind of help to inspire you to write some genuinely creative and authentic, which is my focus. Authentic essays.

Brandon: My biggest thing is this. You are writing an essay that is a reflection of you, point blank period. It do not be funny if you’re not funny.

Amber: Yes,

Brandon: we will laugh at you and not with you. Do not feel that you have to have some made for TV movie type experience. Because once again, this has gotta be authentic.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Brandon: So we’re not going to make, not making the football team into this big dramatic thing if it isn’t. But if it really is authentically the biggest thing that was a disappointment to you, then why Think of your essay as once again, this is a reflection of you and your life.

It’s like your life is the textbook. You are giving us the justification for this from your life experiences. That’s what this is. And it’s a slice of who you are and what you’re gonna bring. And I’ll tell you, one of my favorite essays that I’ve ever read in my career was a student who literally start off with I Am Boring.

What the essay ultimately became about was the fact that they recognized that they lived in a very homogenous environment where everyone was similar to them. Everyone had similar experiences. They wanted to go away to college to get a different experience. Hmm. It was so great because once again, very, very simple.

Very much. I got a chance to get to know who they were, and I got a chance to get to know what they wanted outta life. Boom. Easy. So don’t complicate this. Don’t complicate this in thinking, oh, I don’t have a hook, I don’t have this. I don’t have, what do you have?

Amber: Yes.

Brandon: And being proud of what do you have? And does that pride in what you have come across if you’ve done that, made a good essay?

Anesha: Yes. My only addition here would be. You’re not gonna write the essay that you should submit in one city? Oh, no. Yes. Be prepared for drafts. And I, I feel like a lot of times students are like, okay, I wrote it. I’m handing it in. Yeah. It’s not the same way you should approach essays. You write for school.

Like it is going to be an iterative process. It’s going, you’re going to have drafts on. Drafts on drafts. So if you don’t, your first draft is not the perfect essay. Don’t feel like you should be stuck. It should go through Yes. Multiple, multiple rounds of conversation, edits and shifts. Um, can I, can I

Amber: say to that point or did you finish?

Anesha: No,

Amber: no. Go

Anesha: for it. Go

Amber: for it. No. ’cause you made a great point too that it kind of triggered something. Also, we, it’s not the same as your high school writing, so you might be used to very academic, formal writing. Please. Like we, we want to get to know you more. Obviously, don’t be too informal. Don’t use explicit language.

Um, or, or get too comfortable in that way. But we do. It is not going to be like, this is what happened and therefore this is what I must do, or this is how I hope to see in the future, or this is what I learned from that. Like we do want to take it a little deeper than just the cause effect kind of writing that, that was my tidbit.

Anesha: Yeah, that, that’s great. Um, okay. Gonna go a little bit into strategy. Um, and so the first question is strategically is does it help to apply to schools outside of your own state?

Brandon: If you wanna go,

Amber: like, my next question is, does it help? What, um, yeah, if you’d like to go, because if you wanna go right.

Anesha: Because, yeah, I mean, yeah, when I saw it, I felt like it was a question of like balancing your college list to that point of like you should, I think it benefit it for coming from California and then also New York where there are these kind of like bigger strategic systems, state systems.

Amber: Yeah.

Brandon: The fundamental thing is is that a school should be on your school list because you genuinely want to go number one. Is there a strategy involved? Yes. Because once again, you’re meeting different institutional priorities and so you could be meeting that institution’s priority of wanting to have more students who are from out of state, and so therefore it is gonna be beneficial.

But the bottom line is you gotta want to go there. So that’s the reason for why my fundamental question is, if you wanna go, then there are gonna be some advantages about that. The other thing is this, and once again, this is about managing expectations. If you’re wanting a merit scholarship, go and apply to institutions that are gonna give you merit scholarships, because it’s amazing to me how many students and families tell me, oh, we want merit scholarships.

But I’m like, but you’re looking at institutions that don’t give them.

Amber: Mm-hmm.

Brandon: They don’t have to give them, right. Stanford doesn’t have to give merit scholarships because they have no problems attracting great students. Many of these other highly selective institutions don’t have to give merit scholarships because once again, they have no problem attracting great students.

Now, other great institutions that maybe are not seen because of any number of factors, they’re gonna be the ones that are going to give you merit scholarships because they need the attraction. So that’s once again, where we talk about managing expectations, because if your expectation is, oh, I’m gonna get all these amazing merit scholarships.

I’m gonna be as a good advisor telling you, well then guess what? Some of these schools we’re gonna have to look elsewhere because if you really wanna get a merit scholarship, these are gonna be the schools that are gonna offer it to you. Where these are only gonna offer you admission and they’re gonna be like, admission is the gift.

Amber: Hmm.

Anesha: Very well said. Um, I’ll just add, I guess that I think it’s being strategic about public, private, and instate outta state. So I think that the question might have been oversimplified to that point. So I think to that person you might wanna have a deeper conversation with their advisor. ’cause I think you’re having problem.

Yes. You’re thinking about a couple different levels. Yeah. Um, of conversation and type of school. Um, uh, so the next question is, we have familiarity with early action, early decision, 81, 82. Are there specific strategies on choosing you know, what to apply, where to apply, how to apply, um, when you’re thinking about applying early and does or applying early help your chance?

Brandon: So I’ll just say this early does help for certain institutions, but once again, it doesn’t help for all. And it’s, the bottom line is you’re applying early because you authentically wanna go there. I really am never a big fan of, oh, we’re gonna apply early because it benefits, but it’s not your 100% choice.

Because remember, you’re committed. You’re never gonna really know if those other schools are an option for you because you made that commitment. So hence you’ve gotta do it not from the application strategy perspective, but because you authentically want to go to that institution and therefore you’re giving yourself the best chance to get admission to that institution.

So it’s starting with the interest first. Yeah. Then the strategy, not the strategy, and then the interest.

Amber: Exactly because it’s going, you’re gonna run into conflict there. It, I, I think I saw a question. Um, with early decision, you can only apply to one school early decision. It’s binding. Think of it like a contract in the sense of you are committing and you will have to commit if you submit an early decision application to going, should you be attended?

And to Brandon’s point, you might not find out the other admissions decisions because you will have to withdraw all other applications. Also, to his point, different, I’m sorry. Oh, I thought I heard something. Um, so with, there’s also restrictive early action and single choice early action with those schools.

You’re not committed to applying, but you are gonna be restricted in terms of how many other schools early you can apply to. Mainly being, you cannot apply to other private schools early. So if you apply to Stanford restrictive early action, you couldn’t also apply to Yale, which also happens to be restricted early action.

You couldn’t also apply to Harvard, you couldn’t also apply to any other private domestic institution. Um, and then just to distinguish, if it’s just plain early action, no binding, no restriction, ultimately, are you prepared to submit it early? Because yes, the, the main benefit there is just being able to find out sooner whether or not you were admitted to an institution.

But I want to reinforce Brandon’s point, that it starts with your interest. Then we build a strategy around that. We’re not just gonna blindly pick a strategy and blindly recommend which school to apply to early decision when That’s a very big commitment to make out the gate.

Anesha: All right. We started off with a general piece of advice, so let’s end on.

A common mistake that you’ve seen students make in, in the application that you would advise them to avoid? I think he’s pointing to me. So I would say,

Amber: uh, and I think I’ve said this before, but it was just more common than you’d think. Um, wrong school name or like wrong context. Like you really copy and pasted the essay.

And I’m not saying smarter, not hard. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing in terms of you can repurpose content. You don’t have to start every single essay from scratch. But if you are gonna repurpose some content, please do you due diligence to read that application through. I remember specifically one that was a great application and said at the end of the essay, and that’s why I think U Penn is my top choice.

And I was like, okay, well I hope that is, I hope they like you too. Like that’s, it’s not a good. It is not, especially for schools that care about their brand, it just, it also looks like you weren’t careful and you didn’t do your due diligence. So it doesn’t really reflect well on you, and it’s such a small thing.

You don’t want that to be in the back of your mind. You get your applica or you look back at your application after you submit it. Like, oh my gosh. So that goes under my big point of just make sure you read through your application. Have a trusted person where it’s not too many cooks in the kitchen, but like a trusted co advisor or someone who is helping with the application.

Uh, just read over it for grammar checks. Like, so it’s not just you grammar, spelling, write school name. Uh, but that’s something that I, I saw more than I expected to.

Brandon: Biggest mistake that I often see with this process is students. Not valuing the importance of research.

Amber: Yes, that too.

Brandon: You need to look into the institutions and be able to articulate Yeah.

Why you wanna go. And it can’t be prestige and location alone. If you’re doing that, you’re asking for a wait list or a deny.

Anesha: Yeah. If I, if I were to ever do a TED talk, it would be the importance of researching and how to, I think the struggle is how to research, um, colleges. And I think that’s an ongoing kind of issue with students, uh, on how to effectively thoughtfully research school.

So I appreciate ending on that note, but that is where we will end it. Thank you so much for all of your questions. Really great questions from folks, so we appreciate it. Um, we hope that you got the context you were looking for and learning a little bit more of how to approach your, your applications, um, with the admissions offices.

And we hope that you will join us next time. But until then, take care and have. A great evening. Thanks again, Brandon and Amber.

Brandon: Take care everyone.

Anesha: Goodnight.